Re: Final Challenge to Socialists

Samael (Samael@dial.pipex.com)
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:30:45 -0000

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Lorrey <mike@lorrey.com>
To: extropians@extropy.com <extropians@extropy.com> Date: 11 December 1998 16:27
Subject: Re: Final Challenge to Socialists

>Samael wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Terry Donaghe <tdonaghe@yahoo.com>
>> To: extropians@extropy.com <extropians@extropy.com>
>> Date: 11 December 1998 01:35
>> Subject: Final Challenge to Socialists
>>
>> >In order for socialism to exist, the government must use violence to
>> >force it's citizens to pay taxes.
>>
>> I would contend that individual citizens refusing to pay tax is an act of
>> theft against all people. (the basic items from which all else is
produced
>> belonging to everyone). An act of theft can be reasonably met with the
>> threat of violence to return that which has been stolen.
>
>There you go again. The basic items from which all else is produced are
fairly
>exchanged for an individuals labor

Except that the basic ownership (of land or basic resources) are not fairly distributed to start off with (Texas ranchers that just happen to find oil wells - people who got land during the settlement phase of colonisation, etc.).

The land does not belong to anyone. Some people have just grabbed it and denied others access to it. The basic resources do not belong to anyone. Some people grabbed them and denied others access to them. All other property and wealth derives from those sources (except, possibly for things like software and other intellectual knowledge and even then a connection could be made). Therefore all wealth derives from communal property/unowned property.

Samael