Re: some U.S. observations and notes

From: Brian D Williams (
Date: Fri Dec 28 2001 - 07:54:06 MST

>From: Kai Becker <>

>First of all: I am sure that you're right about the USA, and I
>think I am right about Germany. But my real question is still
>unanswered - and I think the answer _is_ important for this list:
>Even if the USA can only lower their highest crime rate in the
>western world when all their citizens have guns (and I doubt this,
>because "correlation is not causation"), why do the other
>countries have a rate four times lower _without_ this? There must
>be other factors than guns, and for me, these are the important

The way to lower the crime rate is to actually hold criminals
accountable for their own behavior. Something rarely practiced here
in the U.S..

Even in the case of murder with a handgun, people repeatably give
evil intent to the inanimate chunk of metal rather than the

Crime rate figures for the U.S. are skewed. I live in the Chicago
area and have for most of my adult life, no one has ever been
murdered in any neighborhood I've lived in, and crime is as rare as
any European city. Yet I could take you to neighborhoods where
someone was probably murdered yesterday and probably will be today.

But don't take my word, look for yourself:

>Firearms empower to what? To kill. I can't find this extropian.
>Like the proverb says: For some one with only a hammer, everything
>looks like a nail. Someone who has a gun has no need to think
>about better alternatives. Cf. the discussion about
>no-alternatives situations...

This is ridiculous and totally unsupportable. There are 80 million
armed Americans who find other solutions every day. Guns are a
weapon of last resort, but one you're damn glad to have when you
need it.

If you don't wish to own guns don't, but you do not have the right
to tell me how I may chose to defend myself.


Extropy Institute,
National Rifle Association,, 1.800.672.3888
SBC/Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W

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