Re: War Support Ebbs (almost a rant)

Date: Sun Nov 11 2001 - 09:51:39 MST


<<First, I would like to point out that I did not say you really have
    Anton's syndrome. US just *looks* like it has it. >>

Oh, I understood the stated view.

<<Hmm, how much European history do you know? Many governments in the 30's
    were extremely authoritarian and corporativist (including the US; study
    The New Deal), and the dominant ideologies at that time were fascism and
    socialism - if you were an intellectual and asked what the ideology of
    the future were, you would most likely answer one of those. Liberals
    like Popper and Hayek were fringe.>>

FDR, for all his many, many, flaws was primarilly focused on employing
Americans, so that he could get re-elected. So what America settled for in
the 1930's was a continuous, low standard of living, based on government
support (CCC WPA etc) versus, simply inflating the economy with investment
capital, as what actually occured, post Dec 7the 1941. Popper and Hayek,
though they are intellectual lights of the 20th century, had small influence
till after 1945.

<<Antiamericanism has a *long* tradition in Europe by now, and is firmly
    entrenched in media, politics and culture. In a way it is also a remnant
    from the cold war, since (obviously) it was supported by the pro-Soviet
    left, but there is enough cultural friction even without it to keep it
    going indefinitely.>>

I am well-aware of this tendency in the Euro presses, and, like I had
mentioned in my previous post, also cynical and paranoid myself. I cast
stones, realizing my own lackings. Yet, I also think the United States need
not be a victim of someone else's propaganda. We have our own dead to bury,
and our own interests to pursue.

   <<As for Europe supporting the middle east, I think you should remember
       how that system was set up and how spheres of influence were
       distributed; to a large extent the postwar Europe simply agreed to
       support the US hegemony. The same complaints that are levelled at the
       for causing the current situation can of course be aimed at Europe. As
       for Saddam, again you should remember that the US supplied him with
       weapons during the war against Iran - it is Bin Laden all over again.>>

Well, I don't suspect that if the Europeans had united, on their own, during
the 60's and 70's, and taken a Euro- De-Galleist approach and made their own
millitary and Force Disuasion, up to being able to retaliate against an
invading Soviet Union, the USA would have objected. That, of course, would
have implied the movement of money into European armies defending their own
soil from the Warsaw Pact. I doubt if Europe would have had the political
will to accomplish this. Europeans may have felt like puppets but they
aren't. This is similar to American idiocies with Saudi Oil reliance.

<<But there is a long intellectual history
    of lambasting the US for everything bad. The right did it too (and of
    course attacked the Soviet Union even more), the left toned down the
    Soviet criticism and wholeheartedly criticized the US for everything it
    did. This has deeply influenced media (you would be surprised how much
    newspaper articles in Sweden mainly dwell on the bad sides of US
    society), and of course percolated into society. If you ask most Swedes,
    I think they assume that self interest, disregarding the rest of the
    world, is a primary motivator for all US foreign policy.>>

This is merely vilianization, without facts, is it not, or being able to put
matters in perspective, at the least? A Swedish women I remember, who married
a physician in the USA, both later emigrated to Sweden in the 1980's, surely
exhibited this political attitudes you have written of. So what I am saying
is that I am familiar with this indoctrination.

<<And remember - we are your *allies*. Now think about the rest of the
    world. >>

Not to be a total dick, but during WW2 Sweden was a neutral. ;-) Also during
the cold war. :o( Heeeeeeey!!!!

<<It is also interesting to think about the current situation reflected in
    a world where China has emerged as an economic superpower sometime in
    the 2010-2020 region (you know, the time where so much dangerous nano is
    expected to be developed). Will anti-americanism still be a strong
    motivator by then? >>

1. We'll see if China really emerges as an economic super-power.
2. We'll see if nanotech emerges as powerfully as hoped for.

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