Re: Death of Democracy

From: Miriam English (
Date: Fri Oct 05 2001 - 19:50:03 MDT

At 05:24 AM 06/10/2001, Brian Phillips wrote:
>quoeth miriam
><Most people are happy to put up with a lot
>of inequity in order to make the system work>
>As much as I love all y'all socialists ;0

You think I'm a socialist? :-)

>I'd like to suggest you amend this statement
>in accordance with the sort of results that
>empathic statism generally brings.
>The statement should be
><Most of the people [who's opinion's
>aren't disqualified by being people who are
>evil/hate-ridden/greedy/selfish] are happy
>to put up with a lot of inequity [especially
>in the lives of others] in order to make the
>system [appear to] work>.

My point still stands. Most people are not evil/hate-ridden/greedy/selfish,
and yes, they are happy to put up with inequity in their own lives and the
lives of others in order to maintain a stable system where they can get on
with their lives.

>The system doesn't *work*. It just parasitizes.
>The less it parasitizes, the healthier we all are.

Well, it does work. Many countries using vastly different social systems
keep their inhabitants wealthy and healthy like never before in history.
Yes, there is some parasitism, but surprise surprise, life is not all about
that. There are many people who devote their lives to taking care of their
families, or to learning about the scientific nature of the universe, or
helping those less fortunate than themselves.

Have a look around you -- really, it is not all bad. I am not a dewey-eyed
utopian, I am a realist. There is plenty still to fix, but things are
getting better and have been doing for a long time. If we keep going the
way we are then we'll hopefully arrive at the spike just about on time.

> To even attempt making the system work
>requires coercion, because there will ALWAYS
>be people who find your politics (or my politics or
>ANBODY'S politics) repellant.

And yet it works...
Education and being able to understand another person's point of view are
the 2 most powerful enablers for change that I know of.

>Just because you
>think something is a neat and happy shiny caring
>idea is not sufficent justification for Big Brother to
>get in on a crusade.

Oh look at me... I'm all warm and fuzzy. :-)
Ummm... when did I ever suggest Big Brother go a-crusading?

>That's the real problem with
>private production of anything resembling a
>replacement for government, isn't it? If you had
>to make your notions of utopia work without the
>"power that comes from a barrel of a gun" and
>force monopolies that back up the taxation system...
>well you might not get as far.

Seems like you are putting words into my mouth, but I can't actually work
out what it is that your imaginary version of me is saying...
Is it saying that private production is bad and government good?
...that isn't even close to how I think.

>(Don't take that the wrong
>way...we ALL have Utopian notions :)

Hmmm, I have utopian notions, though I don't think I have spoken of them on
this list. You probably think you know what mine are, but you'd be surprised.


         - Miriam

To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Virtual Reality Association

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