Re: Democracy held hostage

From: Brian D Williams (
Date: Thu Oct 04 2001 - 12:51:27 MDT

>From: "Smigrodzki, Rafal" <SmigrodzkiR@MSX.UPMC.EDU>

>>Brian Williams wrote:

>>These cowards did not believe they were facing certain death, but
>>merely earning eternal bliss, therefore by definition they are
>>not courageous, but mere opportunists.

>### Your argument sounds quite plausible, however, there is a
>problem: it means that any Christian, Jew, Muslim, or any other
>theist who believes in a personal afterlife, acts cowardly by
>dying in a war. The bomber crews in WW II, most of whom were
>theists, and bombed civilian or mixed civilian-military targets
>(the firebombing of Tokyo, Berlin, Dresden), must have been
>cowards who knowingly attacked civilians and gladly went into the
>storm of AAA fire, hoping for eternal bliss if things go south.

None of the religions you mentioned with the exception of Islam
promises eternal bliss for killing, in fact killing is seen as
wrong in all of them. How do you account for agnostics like myself
in your theory?

I would have to re-read my history about Dresden, but I know both
Tokyo and Berlin had military objectives. Hiding your militay
elements amongst the civilian population eliminates the protection
civilians supposedly enjoy. Besides there was no such thing as
presicion bombing during WWII.

There is a difference between killing enemy soldiers where you
yourself are also at some risk, and deliberately murdering unarmed

>Is this the kind of conclusion you are drawing?

As I indicated no.

>If meanings of words are stretched to fit the emotionally charged
>moment, soon all meaning is lost.

As I indicated, deliberately murdering unarmed civilians is a
definition of cowardice (and a criminal act) in my book.

>Perhaps you could provide a definition of cowardice, a general
>one, fitting all situations.

See above for a partial definition, I'll work on the rest.

>The 911 perps were scared (as we can infer from their writings)
>they overcame their fear. If they were cowards, the WTC would be
>still standing.

As I indicated, they are/were cowards by definition.


Extropy Institute,
National Rifle Association,, 1.800.672.3888
SBC/Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W

Disclosure notice: currently "plonked"
"Joe Dees" <>
"Party of Citizens"<>

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat May 11 2002 - 17:44:12 MDT