On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:34:36 -0700 (PDT) John K Clark <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes:
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>On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 email@example.com (Randall R Randall) Wrote:
> >No, closer to say that the "Randall Test" *includes* the Turing
> >as it now stands.
The Turing Test is possibly only incomplete.
> >The fact that a tape recorder can make those sounds, however,
does>But in the real world that's not why people think a tape recorder is
> >not mean that the same processes [consciousness] are going on
> >tape recorder, since it is a different sort of machine.
Because they have nothing better, yes. However, wouldn't you agree that knowing how a tape recorder works is a much surer route to knowing whether it is conscious? IOW, the Turing Test sorta works for this purpose, but it is not the best way to tell.
> >Since we know, from personal experience, that human brains
*can* be>I agree its a reasonable assumption that other people who act
> >conscious, and we know that other human brains do cause
> >sounds to ours, we can assume that they are conscious, and
> >study of consciousness with that.
>conscious too, but a reasonable assumption is not the same as a
Nope, but we can base proofs of other things on reasonable assumptions and evidence.
> >>Where is the spatial location of green, or fast, or the number
> >*Certain* locations contain matter with attributes such as
I would say that while consciousness in general is an attribute, a particular consciousness is more complex than that.
> >>That's remembering the past not detecting time,
> >They are the same thing.
>No, one is subjective and the other objective.
How do you know? Have you ever objectively measured time?
> >>Without senses just how would you detect that I stopped
>your brain >>and then restarted it?
> >I don't know that I could.
>Then you couldn't detect time.
Without the proper instruments, I can't tell
the elements that some indeterminate
block of matter is made of. Does that mean that I cannot detect matter?
I may not be able to detect *some*
features of time, but that it exists, I can.
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