Re: Wingdahl's question: (Was) italian interest

From: Waldemar Ingdahl (
Date: Sat Jul 08 2000 - 04:45:49 MDT

>Subject: Re: Wingdahl's question: (Was) italian interest
>Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:06:38 EDT
>In a message dated 7/7/2000 1:31:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> writes:
> >
> > The question is really about philosophical principles, can one advocate
> > transhumanism while sharing stasist views upon society?
>Absolutely. And people do.
>Such a person will not be in 100% accord with the Extropian principles that
>Max has set forth, but they can be in accord with their own. And this
>not be a call to begin wars and name calling! We've witnessed the
>fruitlessness of that all too often.
>Philosophical convictions about economics, spiritual and ethical concerns
>about computers/biotech/AI will often arrive at differing solutions for
>social concerns - in other words, all the complicated issues are not
>resolved. We must expect divergent experiential and political views. If
>do not concur with YOUR particular brand of reasoning, the best you can do
>try to show the offending person that you are correct. You cannot expect
>transhumanists to view things in a way you find axiomatic.
>Diversity is to be expected.


Your reply has given me some serious doubts about transhumanism and
extropianism. It does not seem to be a philosophy that can give me any
practical guidance on how I should lead my life. It just boggs down to
technical discourses of some very far off technologies, that perhaps aren't
even possible to realize. But what about my life? Should I lose some pounds
of my weight, and what can I do if the public transports in my city are
really crappy? Others have answers to that. Transhumanism doesn't answer
those questions, in fact it seems to have difficulties even with describing
the state of the world nowadays anyway, nor its history or its future in
anything but in fluffy talk in some abstract quasi- religious terms. Is
globalisation a positive or negative thing, and how does one open up to
"extropic lifestyles"- what does it mean- sitting? Sitting down writing
mails on a computer? I like free trade and I think that I have the right to
bear arms, well, why debate this with extropians? I can do that at my local
libertarian club, after all.

No ideas, no solutions- there isn't much social life either, the parties and
club culture are not exactly a part of the scene. Nor does it have a
culture- why we should view all those romanticist raytracings as art I don't
know know?

The intellectuals of the movement seem to have moved on or left it. Very
little seems to be produced nowadays.

And really, as a businessman I am busy. Maybe I should take care more of my
store than with a quite technocratic movement that discusses bizarre

So please explain to me why I should keep on being a transhumanist

Waldemar Ingdahl


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