Re: Creationists
Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:52:32 EDT (Brent Allsop) rearranged the electrons to say:

<< To me, you are making a critically mistaken assumption here.
You are assuming that most of the evil is caused by people "treading
their own path". To me this is completely false. If some homicidal
maniac is killing people right and left it is clear that something is
wrong. I have faith that such a person isn't merely "treading his own
path." To me, these perpetrators of sin and madness are the ones that
suffer the most, at least as much as any would be victims. These are
the ones towards which God is really, as Cori so eloquently put it,
"one cruel bastard".>>

People who have free will make thier own decisions. Thus they tread their own
path. These decisions are not neccesarily well informed, well reasoned, or
even understood, by the vast majority of humanity. Therefore a great deal of
them cause pain, suffering, and "evil." People with good intentions and
incorrect data make decisions that have unexpected consequences. Shit
happens. Were they better educated, better fed, more loved they would likely
make better decisions. You seem to think that because God doesn't force them
to a better path, he's "one cruel bastard." I submit to you that God(should
he/she/it exist) does have a tool with which to better the lives of these poor
suffering sods. Us.

There's an old joke about a Man who is trapped on the roof of his home during
a flood. A boat comes by and offers to pick him up & he says "No thanks, God
will save me." A helicopter drops a line, and he says "No thanks, God will
save me." So anyway, he drowns. When he appears up in heaven he looks at
the Lord & says. "I had faith in you Lord, how could you let me down?" And
God says "What are you talking about? I sent a boat & a helicopter!" So
before you start blaming God for all the evil created by people, maybe you
should ask yourself exactly how much have you done to reduce the amount of
evil present in the world.

<< And most of the suffering death and dieing isn't at the hand
of other humans. Have you visited a hospital lately and seen all the
miraculous curing from the hideous "acts of God" (i.e. disasters,
disease, aging...) that goes on? But then, maybe you think stuff like
AIDS isn't an "act of god" but something people just plain deserve
because of their particular chosen "path to tread"?>>

Better be careful there, that was dangerously close to an insult for someone
who just disagrees with you. Once again, if you want a life where nothing bad
ever happens, you're welcome to apply for a position in the My Little Pony
universe. Crap happens because the universe is essentially an uncaring place.
Diseases evolve thru the same process that evolved us, hurricanes happen
because the earth rotates arouynd the sun. Airplanes crash thru human or
mechanical error. No matter what we do, the universe will always be a
dangerous place to exist. Even after I wake up from my cryonic vault, I won't
expect to live forever. Forever is too damn long, so the odd's are just
against it. In short, the same processes that allow us to evolve and to exist
are the same processes that imperil us everyday. You seem to want to ask God
to change the rules now that we are old enough to understand how to play the
game, just as a cranky three year old whines when daddy won't "let them win."

<< My point is, if there is a God, someone must take the blame
for all the evil. You seem to want to place the blaim on us and
insist that it is all required if we are to be allowed to "tread our
own path". I'm sorry, but dying a slow miserable and painful death is
not my chosen path to tread, and I don't know anyone for whom it
really is! So please show me, God, how I may tread a different, less
sinful path, because this is what I (and I believe everyone) really

Evil is as natural a condition of the world as disease. We should struggle to
overcome it as much as we struggle to overcome AIDS. I don't hear most
rational people asking God to eradicate disease. What I expect is that thru
hypothesis and experimentation, we will learn to eradicte AIDS on our own,
without supernatural help. We have take the responsibilty for curing diseases
without blaming ourselves for thier existence. I expect we should be able to
do the same for evil, by educating the ignorant, curing the sociopaths, and
illuminating the actions of those who would keep them hidden, either by way of
Brin's Transparent Society or Halperin's Truth Machine. You're already on the

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