# Re: Special Relativity

Daniel Fabulich (daniel.fabulich@yale.edu)
Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:55:36 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Ian Goddard wrote:

> IAN: Ya, and 0 is larger than -1, and
> thus A's ruler is larger relative to B's.

Not in this case, you silly silly boy. You don't seem to understand that
from B's position, A is smaller, not larger. So you can't ever say that A
is larger than 0, where the 0 is self. Nothing is larger than 0 in this
example. However, B IS smaller than 0 according to A, and A is smaller
than 0 according to B. Since there is no positive sign, you cannot add 0s
and -s to get 0.

> Whether you like it or not, of the two rulers
> above, one is larger and one is smaller at the
> same time in the same frame of reference. Sorry.

True, but the one that is "larger" always happens to be SELF, which is
never positive. If self is always 0, and the other is always negative,
then where are you getting your positive sign from? B does not measure A
to be positive, nor does A measure B to be positive.

In A's reference frame, A is 0, and B is negative. In B's reference
frame, A is negative, and B is 0. You can't sum these and get zero.
There is no reference frame in which A or B measures a positive number.

Most importantly, I can guarantee you that no one will measure either
meter stick to be >1m, *because they use their own meter stick*. Get it?

> IAN: Sorry to keep spoiling your spoiler
> Dan, but, as you know, the net difference
> between -1 and 0 = 0. You keep twisting

The one thing that pisses me off most is a guy who claims to have won an
argument when all he does is repeat something wrong. It irritates me to
no end. Please stop saying that B measures A to be positive: it is false.
B measures itself to be larger than A, but only in that it measures itself
to be *0*, not positive.

> what I say into my saying "A is larger by
> relation to A," even as it's exactly NOT
> what I'm saying... over and over again.

Look, it's really friggin' simple. A measures itself to be 0. A measures
B to be negative. B measures itself to be 0, and measures A to be
negative. A never measures itself or B to be positive. B never measures
itself or A to be positive. A never uses B's ruler when A is performing
the measurements.

So, here are ALL of the measurements you have available to you:
A measuring A: 0
A measuring B: - (never +, uses A's ruler!)
B measuring B: 0
B measuring A: -

What's positive? Construct an "X, using its own ruler, measures Y to be
positive" and you'll win a cupie doll.