Re: ExI = Truth First ?

The SHO master c.c. (
Fri, 15 May 1998 14:42:02 CST

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:40:26 -0400
> To:
> From: Ian Goddard <>
> Subject: ExI = Truth First ?
> Reply-to:

> In the Extropian society, is the core principle:
> "We acknowledge only those truths that are useful."
> Such seems to be the consensus, stated in so many
> words, of some of the members of this list. If so,
> then truth is a subset of the set of "utility" (U),
> and as such, x is a member of U if and only if x
> is useful. So the Extropian principle would be:
> "We acknowledge only those things that are useful."
> The Nazi Party found the extermination of all who
> disagreed with their agenda very useful and adhered
> faithfully to the utility-first principle that many
> on the ExI list adhere to. Does ExI = Nazism? I say
> no! I believe it is not the right ExI principle. I
> believe that to the extent we are directed to that
> principle we are infected with totalitarian memes.
> I have advocated utilitarianism, but
> I think there may be a higher principle.
> With a scientific definition of truth (like perhaps,
> X = truth if f:X->Y = f(a)=f(a'), which is to say, X
> is the truth if the mapping of X on to the physical
> world Y is a one-one function, i.e., that X is the
> truth if X accurately models the physical reality
> without contradiction) then what's wrong with an
> Extropian "truth first" principle? Maybe some-
> thing is wrong with it, I'm not God, but
> should this not be defined logically?
> But then that would be truthful... no?
> What is the logical case against truth?
> In the case of countering national socialism, the
> utility (appealing to the utilitarian) of truth-
> first is that it is not true that your agenda, or
> your well-being, is maximized by the initiation of
> aggression upon other humans. Einstein escaped the
> Nazis, how many Einstein's did not? Even more, not
> killing people but using them as slaves also does
> not maximize the well-being of slaveholders versus
> a society in which all are free to come and go.
> The descendants of slave holders are better off
> because of free markets, not antebellum slavery.
> In sum, I believe truth can lead to Extropia!
> What's wrong with a truth-first principle?

I belive nothing to be wrong with the principal, it is just that
people have been taught to think 1 way and if another way of thinking
should arise then they are told that way is wrong and not to belive
that way of thinking.

---I do not side with the Nazi's but look at the
good things they did for the world. the built the Autobahn,
experiminted heavily in medicine (good and bad, which has helped the
U.S. in serving out it's death penalties), they dabbled with
macinery, and much more.---You see this is my view, sure they did
lots of wrong but I have altered my way of thinking to see the good
in people, and I try to stay on task as such.

If we are talking Gov't, they should be the most flexiable
orginization in the universe. One reason they are not is that THEY
THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At some time i think they branded us with
the assumption that it is the other way around, that is just not

If people had an open mind they could see that "truth is in the eye of
the beholder".--this has always, will always, and should always be
true (in my eyes).