Re: Erik's Fallacy

Erik Moeller (
Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:53:06 +0200

> IAN: So "some cults are negative" and you think
> "extropian ideas are negative," therefore ExI
> is a cult. Supported further by the fact that
> ExI holds regular meetings, and therefore per-
> forms "rituals." Why bother with such strained
> argumentation to achieve an insult? Just argue
> over the philosophical principles. The insult
> thing is just an ad hominem variety of counter.

You should separate the "cult" discussion from the "principles" discussion.
As I've already written in a private mail to Anders, I am a very lingual
thinker and prefer to use the correct words. And I still think that the word
"cult" applies to the ExI. It doesn't have anything to do with whether the
ExI is positive or negative, it just means using the right terms to describe

> BTW, your comments on the "optimism" post were
> very enlightening and wise. My revolutionary
> style is exactly what I've felt is reckless.
> But I have trouble breaking out of it. Full
> frontal attacks on a cover-up may in fact
> only make it dig its heels in deeper.??

I have followed your analysis of the TWA-800 cover-up and forwarded it to my
friends. It was certainly interesting, but on the other hand, you have to
ask yourself what you can achieve with this kind of information? Of course,
you have to understand power structures -- but although I have much
information about the JFK "incident", I will not try to convince anybody
that the CIA are a bunch of killers, liars and generally evil guys. How
could that possibly help anyone?

> Maybe you should also consider such with
> respect to your attacks on Extropianism.
> The way to change things is to work with
> them, not to insult and demolish them.

I am sorry if you feel like I do. I have to admit that my reply to Max was a
bit feverish (especially the "leader" part), and the only thing I can say to
justify that is that I only had 5 hours of sleep and don't like it when
people say that I haven't understood anything. But I don't think that my
last postings were irrational or abusive.

Erik Moeller