Re: Why atheism beats agnosticism (Was: Re: Contacting God)

Erik Moeller (
Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:09:30 +0200

>Yes, you have a lingual problem. It should be perfectly obvious that Daniel
>did not mean that he likes to go around forcing people to recant their
>religious beliefs at the point of a gun. What he meant by "militant" is no
>different from the way it is standardly used: it means you like to pick a
>fight. The kind of fights some atheists like to pick are
>verbal/intellectual fights, not physical ones.

Pick a fight, yeah. Maybe with people who don't even want to fight. And
still battle them, until their beliefs are shaken in their fundamentals.
Maybe drive them into suicide.

I work with fundamental Christians. Although I have all the knowledge to
refute their beliefs completely, I don't. Why should I interfere with other
people's lives? But a militant atheist could destroy these lives, even with
words only. That's specific for religion, because it is irrational, it is
always attackable. But the emotions connected with the religous beliefs are
not. And that's why you cannot predict how someone whose worldview has just
been destroyed will react.

I wouldn't call that mindfucking. I would call it mind rape. And it's a type
of coercion, too.

>>I think I've understood it. Probably better than you, the founder.

>Sure, Erik.

Well, just like I think I understand Catholicism better than the Pope.
Religous cults can usually not be correctly interpreted by their leaders,
unless those are perfectly aware of the fact that they are just brainwashing
a horde of money-bearing idiots. The intellectual level of Extropy is
higher, but nevertheless it is a cult and you are its leader.

>BTW, if you're militantly anti-Extropian, you don't belong on this
>particular email list. It's intended for Extropians and fellow travellers.
>You're completely free to criticize extropian thinking elsewhere, such as
>the Transhuman list, but it's not the function of *this* list.

OK, I summarize: Extropian thinking must not be criticized on this mailing
list. Your fundamentals are built on sand, and that's why you cannot take
criticism. Of course I haven't even started to seriously criticize Extropy.
But even a little rant in my spare time seems to be too much to take. If my
postings disturb you, why not set up a mail filter? Might make life easier.