Re: Subject: Anarcho-Capitalism > Agoric Democracy

Michael Lorrey (
Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:20:07 -0400

Tony Hollick wrote:

> > What is the flaw in changing the name Anarcho-Capitalism to Agoric
> > Democracy?
> It would be a _lie_. Good definitions read 'from right to left.'
> The flaw is that Capitalism is neither anarchic nor agoric, and -- as Noam
> Chomsky among many others has pointed out -- Anarcho-Capitalism would in
> practice very likely produce the most hideous tyranny the world has ever
> seen. You do not have to meet many Anarcho-Capitalists to realize this.
> These are people whose minds have been seized by an axiomatized deductive
> system. Every question becomes ansered by a look-up table, or mantra-like
> incantations of 'the market will sort it out.'
> Even 'saints' would wind up as tyrants under anarcho-capitalism.

But is that such a bad thing? Having a benevolent tyrant to rule the moronic masses
would likely be far less problematic than letting the slobs rule themselves...since
most of those masses don't want the responsibility anyways...

> Individual freedom is an optimum, not an absolute.

Yes, you get out of it what you put into it. If you are a lazy slob, you wind up
slaving away for someone else...

> [ FX: "SHOUT MODE ON:" ]
> There is no 'Absolute Foundation' for property rights, and to
> propose to base an entire society on the illusion that there is, is
> the sort of crass folly only clever people are capable of.
> Even _one_ working example would be nice...

An Absolute Foundation? Of what kind? And based on what Doctrine of the sourch of
such Rights, Natural Law or the Force Doctrine??

> Capitalism. (n). Hierarchical economic system structured to give further
> cascading privileges to the existing owners and controllers of Capital.
> Usually turns into 'crony-Capitalism' (ref: Hernando de Soto, 'El Otro Sendero').

Y'know, most trust fund babies that I have met have been the most spendthrift, lazy,
unmotivated, unsuccessfull slobs I have ever known. I really don't fear such morons,
and it helps that they have so much money to blow, as its then much easier for active
anarcho capitalists like myself to score a big profit on a few deals.

> Supposed benefits include fabled 'trickle-down' of economic resources,
> which is no doubt why 350 000 children die _every day_ from preventable
> disease and malnutrition. Imagine yourself reading gung-ho capitalist
> tracts to them as they die hideously in front of your eyes...

Yet, I am not aware of any children here in the US or other highly
capitalist/mercantilist economies that die from malnutrition, other than those who
are suffering from such psychological ailments as anorexia. Ethiopia, OTOH, that
socialist paradise, has lost more people to malnutrition in 15 years than are
currently alive there today.

> Agorism. (n). Horizontalist, 'reticular' or networked system of
> interacting _equals_. Note that Agorism is a fully-fledged _social_
> system while Capitalism is an _economic_ system.

Yet Agorism takes its name from the ancient term for 'the market'. Do agorists
emphasize the minor social aspects of a community bazaar, while blithely ignoring the
over-riding economic aspects?

> Anarcho-Capitalism: (n). Imaginary system of society where powers of
> absolute government (secret police; mass murder -- i.e. nuclear weaopons;
> torture chambers -- i.e. maximum security prisons; judicial murder -- i.e.
> 'the death penalty', etc. etc.) are all up for sale to the highest
> bidders. Any half-way intelligent devious 'Capitalist' (I know several)
> will show you how to turn all this into an absolute dictatorship while
> still retaining the 'anarcho-capitalist' labels and trimmings. Take a
> look at some of the caricatures of the 'New World Order' sometime.

Any system will wind up with the end that its members deserve. If the members of an
anarcho-capitalist society refuse to take personal responsibility for themselves,
then they will wind up in the sort of tyrrany that you automatically assume any such
society to be. Anarcho Capitalism is not, as a whole, beneficial for the stupid, the
weak, or the faint of heart. This is a given. However, it is wrong for you to
automatically assume that the members of such a society will all become completely
subsumed by the most selfish, self-aggrandising personal drives, and will completely
ignore such habits as personal charity, generosity, etc. It should be noted that the
US, which most will agree is the 'most' capitalist economy in the world, leads the
world in personal per capita giving, in both time and money, both in absolute terms
and as a percentage of income and assets.

Why is it that people living in socialist countries are individually selfish,
materialistic, and ungenerous as compared to Americans???

> Ask an 'anarcho-capitalist' if they believe in (a) unrestricted private
> ownership of thermonuclear weapons (i.e. the means of indiscriminate mass
> murder) and (b) systematized murder (the 'death penalty'), all under their
> personal control. If they answer 'yes', (a) pre-emptively kill them if
> they give you a funny look; or (b) run like hell! >:-}

Depends on whether YOU deserve it or not. If you respect them and give them a wide
berth, then you are not likely to become a target, are you? If you were to go on
making such wild, inflammatory, inaccurate statements about capitalism, individual
liberty, etc, they might just deem you a threat and WILL nuke you, just for
preventions sake....

> Whereas Democratic Agorism already exists -- i.e.
> In practice, 'anarcho-capitalism' is 'salonfahig'; a fashionable fig-leaf
> for existing privilege, and a time-sink and a pitfall for freedom-seekers.
> Anarcho-capitalists usually attach themselves to right-wing conservatives
> for company -- i.e. to right-wing pols like Thatcher, or 'intellectuals'
> like Charles Murray). Amusingly, many 'anarcho-capitalists' are State
> agents of various kinds; nothing against State agents, you understand...
> Some of my best friends... >:-}

Funny, most people against anarcho-capitalism that I meet tend to be agents for World
Federalism. Whose New World Order are you for???

   Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------ Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
MikeySoft: Graphic Design/Animation/Publishing/Engineering
How many fnords did you see before breakfast today?