Re: Anti-Semitism (was New X-humanist forums) My personal take on things!

From: Michael S. Lorrey (
Date: Fri Jun 23 2000 - 19:11:43 MDT

john grigg wrote:
> Brian wrote:
> When I first thought about it, I kept thinking, indeed, the
> charge amounts to Jewish paranoia, but I no longer think that.
> It has at least three components. 1. Anti-Semitism is the best
> explanation for the irrationality of the eternally recurring
> circumcision discussions (in these discussions, medical
> evidence, as I've assessed it, is not adduced rationally). 2.
> Things Jewish have more than once been referred to as funny or
> odd or something (though of course not "evil," or "sucking
> shit"). At least twice, for example, a Jewish name was referred
> to as funny or odd or something along these lines (a reference
> to Ayn Rand's birth name, "Alice Rosenbaum," was one example
> that I recall offhand);

I, some time ago, mentioned that when continental european governments
started instituting nationwide censuses, many people who had formerly
not had surnames other than some sort of identification of who your
father or mother was, were given surnames, typically based on what their
trade was, or where they lived. I mentioned, in order to indicate the
deep history of anti-semitism in Germany, how German government
officials who assigned surnames to such people would frequently make up
rather insulting surnames and assign them to Jews. Names like Einhorn (a
reference to the penis, aka 'one horn') were rather commonly assigned.

> 3. Far more interestingly (though
> perhaps not relevantly), the case has been made that
> libertarianism itself is anti-Semitic (the argument is
> tortuously complex, but revolves around an equation of attempts
> to avoid the Law [as in "People of The Law"] with attempts to
> avoid governmental control. Very long story.
> (end)

Neither of which libertarianism is about, by the by, so the argument is
really baseless, and promulgated by those who would like to demonize
proponents of individual liberty as 'outlaws'.

> Whew!... some interesting points to say the least. 1. Perhaps in our day
> blatant anti-semitism is often not allowed so some people(perhaps
> unconsciously even) just barely hint at it. Circumcision is often seen as a
> uniquely jewish topic even though it is not. That medical reasons for it
> were not given is interesting. Tone, topic and facts to back it up DO
> matter.
> 2. I have picked up on things jewish being referred to as funny or odd. I
> remember my mind being "pricked" numerous times but than letting the matter
> go. These were all on the surface at least very minor things, but still...
> 3. I never heard this before! I am now thinking about the post Mike Lorrey
> wrote! I think what he says applies here. Mike is there anyplace you won't
> go? lol

I prefer to discuss a matter until understanding is reached. Its a
little failing of mine to desire that people understand me and not think
ill of me (unless I want them to, of course ;) ). I tend to regard other
people's irrational hypersensitivities as logically baseless, and
therefore not worthy of consideration as a rational basis for argument
or debate (another failing of mine). I expect (frequently improperly)
adults to act like adults.

> I am glad you made us aware of this matter. I personally had no
> idea. I have heard there is major jewish scholarship in methods and shades
> of anti-semitism. I can see how jews being "people of the law" and having
> been persecuted so horribly over the centuries would want strong(but just)
> governments in place where they live so their rights would be respected.
> Libertarianism could create an environment of vulnerability for jewish
> people and culture should persecution arise without central authority to
> squash it.

Which is also a baseless claim, considering that the primary sources of
persecution of Jews has been due to pogroms encouraged and/or sponsored
by large central governments which stripped jews of their ability to

I don't necessarily buy the concept of the 'self-hating Jew' by the way,
but I do buy the concept of the 'self-vicitimizing Jew', which might be
associated with some form of self-hate as the scholars see it, but I
don't dwell on such concepts anyways, they are too self defeating.
Talking about the idea of the 'self hating Jew' is not anti-semitic,
btw, because it refers to a very real cultural paradigm of 'jewish
guilt' that I guess is some sort of internalized slave master, dating
back to the pharohs, or to the time in Babylon, or under the Romans, or
to the golden calf, or even back to the mythical original sin, or maybe
it all together. Its kinda-sorta like the phenomenon of Catholic Guilt
that the nuns seem to be VERY good at instilling in young women as some
sort of self perpetuating meme of self hate. Don't know who does it
better. If I base it entirely on my own relationship with my mom, as
opposed to the relationship my jewish friends have with their mothers,
measuring a 'clinginess' factor, I'd have to say jewish moms generally
win hands down, but that is just an impression based on a very small

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