Re: You may not believe in God but She still believes in you, (for Ronin)

From: Corbally (
Date: Fri Jun 23 2000 - 18:41:03 MDT

>To me Divinity is what you make of it. Through religion you can become quite
>empowered, as well as disempowered. There are many methods and traditions,
>each equally valid.

I'm curious as to your definition of "valid". Valid in what way?

>Perhaps you are wondering if I "believe" in an outside
>God. God is real because He affects me, indirectly through His worshippers
>who "believe" in Him.

Don't you mean that he's real only to you? Then if you weren't around to
be affected, would he never exist? Would that mean that each person could
have their own god? You're losing me.....

>I personally don't acknowlege any kind of objective
>reality, but nor do I reject one.

But surely an objective reality isn't dependent on acknowledgement, as it
would exist independent of my wishes or awareness? And how does that
relate to the existence of a god? Also if the effect of a god is how you
define him as real, doesn't that mean he isn't necessarily objectively
real, because if we possibly don't exist in an objective reality, then he
can only be subjective at best?

>Gods are "real" because they affect me,
>just as "capitalism" is real, "homosexuality" is real, "mental illness" is
>real, etc.
>Ronin Cuervo

But Santa Claus affected me, as did the Bogey Man, Tooth Fairy, the Hell
concept, the Heaven idea etc.... I've not yet seen proof that they exist
in either subjective or objective realities. Plus the fact that they were
created by people, regardless of the surrounding reality.

Also, capitalism, homosexuality and mental illness don't affect all people
in the same way, or to the same degree. Does that mean that god is somehow
less real for different people? So therefore he only exists if I believe
he affects me? What defines his reality as anything different from the
other items listed? It seems to me that if all is subjective, then
anything proposed is at best subjective. But if an objective reality is
the one we live in, then evidence becomes a valid concept, and a
requirement for acceptance of an idea.

It's late, I'm tired. Nighty night all,


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