On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:19:37PM -0600, Chris Russo wrote:
> >> Here's a thought - why not make the pie out of feces?
> >Because then it *isn't* a purposefully harmless prank.
> Harmless by your definition, not mine. If you ever get a chance to
> talk to a woman who's been raped, or forcefully groped, ask her if
> she was physically hurt.
In what way is a flan in the face comparable to rape?
> You just don't get it. When someone does something physically to you
> against your will, it's a violation of your person.
You are taking an absolutist position: that *any* physical act is morally
and practically equivalent to the most serious conceivable physical act.
I do not buy that position. It is self-evidently wrong. (*Why* it appears
self-evidently wrong to me is an interesting issue that I need to go
and think about.)
> >Can you cope with people mocking you publicly, if they don't lay so much
> >as an air molecule on your person?
> Sure, I have no problem with that. When someone mocks me publicly,
> they're not impeding me or attacking me physically. They have a
> right to mock me.
> By your logic, if someone is mocking me and I don't like it, I should
> be able to have my bodyguards go shove a pie in his face or do
> something else equally assaulting and degrading. Might makes right,
Nope. Go shove the pie in his face yourself. Don't be surprised if they
shove one right back at you, too.
Look, think of it as one point on a continuum:
* You don't object to someone mocking you verbally.
* Suppose someone dresses up as a mime and follows you around, apeing
your movements and taking the piss. Is *that* harmful?
* (cream pie goes here)
* Someone follows you around and tries to throw a plate full of feces
in your face. They've been considerate enough to nuke any bacteria
in it first, but it still stinks. (I think we both agree that this
*isn't* a nice thing to do, but it is unlikely to prove fatal.)
* Someone tries to shoot you. (Unequivocally bad.)
This continuum runs from forms of criticism that are harmless to forms of
criticism that are lethal.
Now, as far as I can tell, your position is that there should be no
difference in response to being groped v.s. a serious rape attack: they're
both bad and evil. By extension, there should be no difference in response
to a pie in the face, or a hand grenade.
(Is that an accurate characterisation of your view?)
My point of view is simply that the response should be proportional to
any perceived threat, and that treating a cream pie in the face the
same way as a pistol (or a plateful of turds) is silly.
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