On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:35:10AM -0500, GBurch1@aol.com wrote:
>                                                          ....  The reflexive 
> surrender to authority, be it at a tribal or ethnic level or at a "national" 
> level to leaders like Saddam Hussein or religious zealots like the Taliban 
> spiritual thugs who now rule Afghanistan, seems to be driven by deep cultural 
> tendencies that predate any simple notion of "state control".
Yup, agreed. This, incidentally, is one of the reasons I have a problem
with natural rights derived from some definition of human nature -- it
replaces behaviour mandated by fiat ("you'll do things my way because
I say so") with behaviour mandated by appeals to nature ("you can't do
that -- it's unnatural").
> The problem is 
> clearly both more complex and more memetically ingrained than the modern idea 
> or practice of state authority.
 
Agreed.
>          ...  The prospect of equipping people driven by tribal ethnic 
> passions and who do not possess ingrained cultural restraints derived from 
> respect for individual autonomy and private property with the technologies of 
> the mid-21st century is surely the greatest threat to our survival,
Agreed.
> I don't presume to have an answer to this question, but one thing I know 
> won't help us find solutions is the more potent form of "cultural 
> relativism", which prohibits the passing of judgments on cultures different 
> from our own.
The taboo on passing judgements seems to me to arise from an inability to
conceive of the validity of a *subjective* judgement.  (Which, I suspect,
arises because these people think they've discovered the One True Way --
something on an internal contradiction in their belief system, no?) It's
also a problem for those people who can't differentiate between folklore
and a testable theory.
>                   ...  His discussion of the prisoners' dilemma unfortunately 
> seems to be an afterthought, rather than a fundamental analytical tool.  It 
> seems he is unaware of the powerful insights provided from iteration of the 
> classical prisoners' dilemma, although he ALMOST works it out on his own.  
The iterated prisoner's dilemma is the most powerful tool we've discovered
in attempting to build a solid ethical framework without appeals to human
nature, god's law, or the divine right of kings. You can sum up most of
my previous "ethics in a void" piece as an application of iterated PD
scenarios to human relationships. (And "do unto others as you would be done
by" is, not coincidentally, a starting position for the winning "tit for tat"
strategy.)
> Theoretical concerns aside, I believe that the weakness engendered by 
> cultural relativism poses a fundamental threat to survival over the coming 
> decades.  Some cultural values and practices WORK in the modern world and 
> others don't.  Some tend toward peace and prosperity, and others tend toward 
> violence and poverty.  Not only do we have to be able to SAY this, we have to 
> be able to ACT on this realization.
By my definition, cultural relativism is a *winning* position. But I'm
not talking about idiot academics who think that, because we can't be
certain we live in a perfect society, we cannot be allowed to criticize
anyone else. 
I'd just like to note that the positions I'm opposed to are *all* absolutist
ones, and that I believe (at present) that moral absolutism is more likely
to lead us into error than a healthy dose of skepticism. 
-- Charlie
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