From: matus (matus@matus1976.com)
Date: Fri Sep 12 2003 - 12:02:05 MDT
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robbie Lindauer
>
>> Incorrect, merely existing longer makes you more likely to
>get cancer,
>> regardless of pollutants or carcinogens or ionizing radiation.
>
>That would be assuming things like "breathing air" or "existing under
>the sun" doesn't cause cancer.
Its called entropy. Even if anti-oxidants destroyed every unbound
electron pair in free radicals, even if all ionizing radiation is
shielded, even if were are examing cells in a controlled petri dish in a
perfect environment. Some of those cells will eventually become
cancerous. This is because the cellular copying mechanisms are not
perfect, and cancers are just cells with different genetic structures.
>
>The rest of your point I've already made.
>
>As for whether or not plants cause cancer - maybe they do, but that
>wouldn't explain why it's a greater killer now than 200 years
>ago. For
>that you'd have to add in the social factors.
>
Look, no offense, but I don't think you know anything about cancer. I
am no world renowned oncology expert, but cancer has been a subject of
interest for me. Plants did not cause cause because for the last
900,000 years people DIED before enough mutations built up to cause a
cell to reproduce, undifferentiated, as quickly as possible, which is
what cancer is. It takes *at least* five mutations for a cell to become
cancerous, 50% of cancerous cells have a mutation in the p53 gene, if
one of your parents gamete cells has that mutation, you are far more
likely to get cancer throughout your lifetime then people without that
mutation. Its not just any five mutations, but a whole score of
mutations can occur in different places in the genome. But only some of
those places of your genome, when changed, will make a cell cancerous.
At least five of the target areas have to be mutation. Mutations can
come from a variety of sources, free radicals, ionizing radiation,
toxins, etc. etc. But there must be at least five. Any particular cell
has a particular chance of getting a mutation throughout its life. The
longer a cell lives, the more mutations it gets. When that cell
replicates, its child cells inherient its mutations. Just as a child
whose parents have one of the critical mutations has now every cell in
his body with that mutation, all child cells of a mutated parent cells
in any being also inherient all mutations. Eventually, all cells in
your body (with the exception of nuerons) are child cells of parents,
and more and more cells in your body get more and more mutations as you
exist longer and longer. This is why age is so directly tied to
increase in cancer cases. IF a child is born with four of the five
required mutations *in every cell of his body* he will probably get
cancer at a very young age, since only one cell in his entire body needs
to have the correct area of his genome mutated.
In short, it does explain it, you just don't understand it. I suggest
you refrain from making assertive comments of areas where you do not
have sufficient background knowledge to be that assertive.
Michael Dickey
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Sep 12 2003 - 12:10:19 MDT