Re: would you vote for this man?

From: Brett Paatsch (bpaatsch@bigpond.net.au)
Date: Mon Sep 01 2003 - 22:52:07 MDT

  • Next message: Barbara Lamar: "RE: tribal violence (was: RE: would you vote for this man?)"

    Robert J. Bradbury <bradbury@aeiveos.com> writes:
     
    > Ok, Greg, I'll wade into these waters (though I realize it is
    > probably foolish to do so). [Someday, the Extropian List Principles
    > should include a list of people that one should never never
    > argue with.]

    No, no, no Robert :-)

    I agree with what I think is your contention that Greg's post was
    excellent. I'm actually very much enjoying the current exchanges on
    the list on law (and politics) especially between Greg and Barbara
    and now between Greg and Robbie and am mindful that Greg has
    other demands on his time too, (indeed we all have) but I really
    hope we (extropians) never get the point when there are any people
    who are formally listed as not to be argued with. I am sure you jest
     - but any newbies please take note that that is my view of Robert's
    statement.

    I would like to explore some of the issues Greg raises in his post
    as well, (but not in this post), I think, there is much wisdom in
    Anders recent comment in another thread that we (transhumanists
    I presume) need to be get are arguments sharp as it is the status
    quo that we are trying to change and we are not the only ones with
    visions of a possible futures. I was less certain that Anders was right
    in saving sharpening the arguments is the *first* step. We must get
    our arguments sharp to change the status quo that is true but I think
    even before that we need to be able to triage and prioritise issues.

    I do not have too much trouble envisioning to a fairly high degree
    of detail how the commercial and technological wherewithal to
    radically extend life may be achieved even without GAI within
    a couple of decades. I do have trouble though factoring into
    my mapping of such a possible futures the great uncertainties
    that exist in international law. International law or the lack of it
    has the potential to unsettle everything. It is the big factor X
    on the horizon. International law relates to the relations between
    countries which relates to economics and human rights and
    everything down stream of those. Politics (international law and
    politics) can stymie technological development at least for
    timeframes that are not insignificant for individual humans with
    our current lifespans. I have seen this up close with the international
    stem cell debate in which I am certain that politics and law (including
    international and intellectual property law) has slowed the rate of
    basic research and created bottlenecks in the pipeline of the
    development of therapies.

    I respect that the Exi list is not about partisan politics, and agree
    that it should not be, however politics (in the broad sense) and the
    laws by which humans live and organise themselves sensibly be
    off-limits to any transhumanist agenda in my view unless we are
    content to be an esoteric enclave. We must engage politically at
    times because we will be treated politically whether we do or not.

    Now to me, it is very clear that most existing ideologies and
    party platforms are not going to be embraced wholesale by
    transhumanist but it is not so clear how we can go about triaging
    the problems that remain and require solutions between us.

    I do however think that international law (whether it exist or works
    or not) and the relationship of the most powerful country in the
    world to the future of the world will be of *great* importance.
    I also think it is important for us to realise that technology may
    have the effect of placing enormous propaganda power in the
    hands of fewer and fewer individuals. Even the brightest of us can
    only make good decisions on the basis of the information we
    receive. This means that there are good grounds for us to be
    mindful of the quality of the information we receive. It is no good
    arguing flawlessly from flawed axioms and it is no good having a
    great understanding of world events and ideas if our information
    base itself is getting increasingly smaller and subject to the power
    of fewer and fewer individuals and governments.

    The internet can be a great tool for providing diversity of sources
    but it is not completely untouchable by governments that may be
    tempted to control the sources of information that citizen voters
    receive.

    Regards,
    Brett



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