Re: POLITICS: Genocide in Africa ...

From: Brett Paatsch (bpaatsch@bigpond.net.au)
Date: Sat Aug 30 2003 - 00:32:59 MDT

  • Next message: Spike: "RE: POLITICS: Genocide in Africa ..."

    Spike writes:

    > There is a woman in Nigeria who may be stoned to death
    > for extramarital copulation.

    There was an Amnesty International petition I posted to the
    list back on August 14. They claimed that a previous petition
    had saved another woman from the same fate.
    http://www.extropy.org/bbs/index.php?board=67;action=display;threadid=56774
    The 27th of August seemed to be a key date according
    to the petition organisers. I'm now note the hearing has been
    posponed until the 25th of September so folks can still sign it
    if they want to do something concrete on a personal basis.
    http://www.amnesty.org.au/e-card/petition.asp ]

    > If she is, do you suppose the rest of the world will stand idly
    > by and let that happen?

    I don't think it is useful for us to think in such broad terms as
    "the rest of the world". As individuals we have, or can have,
    more power than that.

    > If we do, will we be able to face ourselves in the mirror?
    > Should we not rush in there and topple the "government"
    > that would carry out such a reprehensible act?

    No Spike "we" shouldn't. Not in my opinion. Not unless we
    understand the wider ramifications. The wider ramifications
    of usurping the UN and the sovereignty of countries is not
    something we should do unless we know what it is that we are
    doing.

    I do not think the majority of people who "supported" the US
    led invasion of Iraq understood what was being given up. Probably
    neither did the majority of those (in the world) that opposed it.

    We can't triage well unless we can see the costs as well as the
    benefits.

    I did not think the US should have invaded Iraq against 1441
    and the UN because I did not think the end justified the means.
    I still don't.

    I spent quite a bit of time messing about (or actually I was being
    quite serious) trying to find game theoretical solutions to the Iraq
    problem as it was unrolling. I thought I found it but I could not
    communicate it. The problem in communication was in part
    because the issues were complex and peoples emotions were
    up, but in large part it was because most folks (including me until
    too late) did not have a sufficient understanding of the UN charter
    and of the nature of sovereignty to weight the arguments properly.

    If we are going to start asking ourselves how we will look at
    ourselves in the mirror if we don't take action maybe we also
    start asking ourselves how well we appreciate such important
    topics as say the US constitution (and the UN charter though
    I think the UN charter is pretty much a dead duck now). If we
    are not ready, and cannot bring an adult understanding to such
    topics then our emotions and prejudices are unlikely to equip
    us to do the triaging that is necessary.

    Without having a view on international law that has some
    coherence, I can't see that one can responsibly advocate either
    rushing in against international treaties and the principle of
    sovereignty or not doing so.

    I think it behoves those who are intellectually, economically
    and geographically able to inform themselves of at least the
    basic principles of existing international law and of the US
    constitution so that they can be better lobbyists and triagers
    within the system that currently prevails.

    Regards,
    Brett

     

     

     

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