From: Robert J. Bradbury (bradbury@aeiveos.com)
Date: Sat Aug 16 2003 - 06:30:58 MDT
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Alex Future Bokov asked about how to
spread the memes without blowing "belief" fuses...
> It's not particularly good memetics to use the L-word (life extension) in
> front of faculty members.
Well, citing an article in Science will have a pretty good impact
on any serious faculty member [1]. As will pointing out the number
of companies now working on aging [2]. And a serious attack
on the conditions associated with aging (such as Aubrey has
developed [3]) will tend to silence the objections of those
more educated in medicine. Its not a question of "if" but "when".
> Let alone make fun of Christianity... especially in
> Texas of all places. They don't believe me.
One way to spin this is to point out that we aren't talking about
"immortality" (that is what tends to blow the "belief" fuses I
think). Much better to point out that we are talking about extending
healthful life (gerotologists call this making the longevity
curve "rectangular"). As Damien pointed out in the Spike and Robert
Freitas pointed out at a recent Alcor conference [4] (and was obvious
to me back at Extro3 so many years ago...) you cannot beat the hazard
function (at least not as humans are currently instantiated). Probably
the best you can do is something like 2000-7000 years unless you
really push on the hazard function by reengineering the human body
with nanotechnology and even then it is still very very difficult
to trump the hazard function.
(So by preserving the meme that one "will" die, you don't have
to break the entire christianity/death/salvation meme-set.
One simply replaces the concept of a death that may be prolonged
and painful with the image of a much longer life -- where one gets
to enjoy ones great-great-great grandchildren and a probable end
which might be painful but will probably be quick, e.g. car accident
or something similar).
Now the thousands of years concept may be a stretch. I once did a
calculation on the best estimates I could find of loss of brain
neurons and the numbers I got were much less (hundreds of years if I recall).
So unless we get stem cell replacement of neurons on a regular basis all
bets may be off much sooner (so long as one doesn't mention "uploading").
> Anybody have suggestions on how I could communicate the need for nuance,
> diplomacy, and picking one's battles to these well-meaning but slightly naive
> youngsters? Some example, some object lesson that would resonate with people
> who overestimate the degree to which the 'normal' world gets the big picture?
A very, very long time ago, I took a course as part of my "enlightenment"
process -- one of the things that stuck in my mind was the statement:
"Never destroy someone's belief system unless you are committed to replacing it".
(Or something to that effect.) The emphasis is on your personal commitment
to *replacing* the belief system -- a very very hard thing to do -- one
must essentially reprogram a human mind which probably has years of experience.
It is a very powerful concept. People construct their lives around their
beliefs. Why? Because their beliefs have allowed them to survive until the
current day. Destroy someones beliefs and you might as well have cast them
adrift in a Class 5 hurricane [5]. So it is relatively important to present
ideas in a way that is compatible with pre-existing belief systems. As new
ideas become more commonplace (consider for example the impact the Matrix
series will have on society) then the older ideas will be discarded
(witness gay bishops being elected by the Anglican church for example).
[I'm not stating that the Matrix led to the election of a gay bishop --
they are separate vectors -- I'm simply commenting on how beliefs can
and will change over time -- but it is very difficult to "force" the
process.]
Robert
1. Martin, G. M., LaMarco, K, Strauss, E., Kelnder, K. L.
"Research on Aging: The End of the Beginnning"
Science 299(5611):1339-1341 (29 February 2003).
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/299/5611/1339
2. http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/Aging/AntiAgingCompanies.html
3. http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/IBGcase.htm
4. http://www.rfreitas.com/Nano/DeathIsAnOutrage.htm
5. http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshs.shtml
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