RE: Nation as Jointly Owned Property( was Re: FWD [forteana] Health Care: USA, Iraq & Canada)

From: Rafal Smigrodzki (rafal@smigrodzki.org)
Date: Thu Aug 14 2003 - 19:00:35 MDT

  • Next message: Natasha Vita-More: "BLACKOUT: Do ExI Members and Friends need Help?"

    Randy wrote:
    > Health Care: USA, Iraq & Canada)
    >
    >
    > Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal@smigrodzki.org> said:
    >
    >> Randy wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I and my ancestors helped build and defend this country. All
    >>> citizens are "owners."
    >>>
    >> ### Good you put the quotation marks around "owners". The joint
    >> ownership form that is a state is the antithesis of individual
    >> ownership,
    >
    >
    > Well, then I guess all joint forms of property are "the antithesis of
    > individual ownership". You have heard of "joint ownership"?

    ### The more dilute the ownership, the less it has to do with individual
    freedom, so the most dilute form of ownership, the state, is therefore
    farthest away from it. A jointly owned medical practice is still controlled
    by its owners, a state is no longer owned - it owns you.

    ----------------------------------
    >
    >> and by
    >> disconnecting gains from work and losses from responsibility, it
    >> diminishes you and everybody it touches.
    >
    >
    > I and my ancestors built this country. That was our work. Our wages
    > are higher than in many other countries. Mexico, for example. Now you
    > see our gain.

    ### "I and my ancestors"! :-)

    Like "I did it, and they helped out, too."

    It's not "our" wages, it is John's, Dick's and Harry's wages - in the free
    market, from everyone according to his ability, for everyone according to
    his usefulness. What other citizens pay, for what, to whom, and what they
    get, from whom, and for what, is nobody's business but their own. You don't
    own them.

    Well, whatever work you did, you got paid. Period. None of the purchasers of
    your work took on an obligation to keep you employed, even when hiring you
    is no longer a profitable venture. Nobody owes you a living. No Americans,
    no Mexicans. Whoever your ancestors might have been. Hired work doesn't give
    you ownership rights to the factory you are working in.

    You want to really own a piece of America, buy real estate or stocks. This
    is ownership, earned, deserved. All else is tribal spear-shaking.

    Saying "My daddy worked here, so give me special treatment" would get a job
    applicant laughed out of any well-run business, and hopefully America, Inc.,
    won't listen to such demands either.

    --------------------

     In fact, you Rafal personally decided to enjoy a bit of
    > OUR work and enjoy the gains of the country WE built, even though you
    > are the grasshopper to our ant, correct?
    >
    >
    ### Of course I decided to enjoy the opportunities offered by the US job
    marketplace, because I personally deserve it - my services are useful to my
    employer (and indirectly to you, by limiting the costs of medical care), and
    I offer them in a fair exchange, without trying to pull in any favors, but
    bringing in about 300 000$ in education and other growing-up expenses that
    your ancestors didn't have to pay for. You know, my uncle was in the
    Marines, my aunt worked here for 40 years - so what? What counts is that me,
    Rafal, offers his services as a physician for sale, and will receive the
    price the market will bear, which is what I deserve, for what I build (not
    some nebulous "WE"), no more, no less.

    Nah, I am the ant that pulls his weight.

    Rafal



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Aug 14 2003 - 16:14:57 MDT