Re: Are Extropians promoters of an ascetic ideal and alienation?

From: JAY DUGGER (duggerj1@charter.net)
Date: Sun Aug 03 2003 - 16:09:19 MDT

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    On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 23:15:49 -0400
      p_chikara@hotmail.com wrote:
    >I used the word "extropians" in a serious discussion
    >recently and once again
    >was reminded that extropians sound like goofy cultists.

    Sigh. That's familiar.

    [snip]
    >What would be the best answer to someone who would say
    >that the primo body
    >and mind uploading are allegoric figures that
    >transhumanists and extropians
    >are offering that permits to fantasm a body removed from
    >it's attaches with
    >the present, the here and now, impossible bodies, wich
    >makes them promoter
    >of an ascetic ideal, who hates the body and the flesh
    >(and are possibly even
    >worse than christians at it, with their angels without
    > nose or phallus)
    >and consequently alienation (alienation is to be
    >understood here as "being
    >estranged to oneself").
    >

    Alienation doesn't necessarily follow from asceticism,
    which in turn doesn't necessarily equal
    self-mortification.
    Ideas about uploading a human mind or radically modified
    human bodies express a hoped-for ideal, not a rejection of
    the actual. Perhaps few extropes or transhumanists strive
    for an idealized human body through diet or exercise, but
    that makes such people (like me) lazy and wishful at
    worst.

    As for "primo body" or uploading serving as
    allegories--well, of course they do. Any actual radical
    transformation lies pretty far in the future, and might
    have significant drawbacks not currently imagined or even
    imaginable.

    People do take small steps toward rebuilt bodies and
    uploading. It's a slippery slope from cosmetics and wigs,
    past eyeglasses and contact lenses to prosthetics and
    beyond--but it's a continuous curve. A similar progression
    exists from wristwatches, possibly the first physically
    intimate mental assistant since pocket-sized notebooks, to
    portable cameras and audio recorders, to cell phones,
    PDAs, and wearable computers.

    If you need an example of a purely asethetic bodily
    improvement, and plastic surgery won't serve, here's one.
    I'd like to have a better sense of hearing to improve my
    ability to appreciate music. I'd like to have absolute
    pitch. I'd like to have the ability to discriminate
    absolute loudness, instead of about seven relative levels.
    I can't imagine what current music would sound like if I
    could hear volume as finely as pitch, much less imagine
    music composed by people with that ability.

    Hope this helps--you might also look at Kurzweil's "Human
    Body 2.0". Please let the list know if your discussions
    profit.

    Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel
    http://www.vibepusher.com/~jdugger
    Sometimes the delete key serves best.



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