Re: Fermi "Paradox" (was Extropian Productivity)

From: Mark Walker (mark@permanentend.org)
Date: Mon Jul 21 2003 - 20:26:42 MDT

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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Anders Sandberg" <>
    > Exactly. This is my own personal guess at the answer of the Fermi
    > paradox. But it has the problem of invoking the existence of some kind
    > of physics we do not know about; not an unlikely assumption or
    > prediction, but rather unsatisfying since it does not tell us anything
    > and cannot be tested.
    >
    > Or can it? The assumption says that there should exist a domain in
    > nature where structures of extremely high complexity can persist and
    > perform at least Turing-computable operations, and that this domain does
    > not look out of the ordinary to us. The current candidates seem to be
    > either dark matter (essentially going back to "some unknown stuff") or
    > spacetime on the Planck scale. This case is interesting: it wouldn't
    > surprise me if one could prove that spacetime evolution in GR can do
    > Turing type computation (proof sketch: one could implement a billiard
    > ball computer with black holes using very massive cosmic strings or
    > wormholes as reflectors - but a real proof needs to show that this is
    > stable enough), but it would be needed to show that stable information
    > storage was also possible in principle.
    >
    >
    I have sympathy with the general line of thought, in fact I've argued before
    that contemporary science should take serious the possibility of a missing
    science. If we think of the universe in its early stages only physical
    phenomena were present--the phenomena currently studied by physics--later
    chemical,
    biological, psychological, sociological and economic phenomena emerged.
    Surely the question arises whether there process might continue, i.e.,
    whether there might be further (emergent) development that calls for a new
    science.
    Once you allow for this possibility then indeed it is quite a natural
    thought to think that the explanation for the Fermi paradox lies with the
    missing science. (With reductionist tendencies one might want to insist that
    physics is incomplete rather than a new level of phenomena (requiring a new
    science) has emerged). This new emergent level may be inscrutable to us,
    which I suppose would not be satisfying even if true. However, even we
    accept this explanation it seems that there must be some "top down" effect.
    If all advanced life forms disappear into dark matter it is still a mystery
    that as a matter of bad housekeeping they didn't leave one single genesis
    probe around, i.e., a single von
    Neumann machine that is bent on populating the universe with life forms at
    our stage of development. The top down effect is that all such genesis
    probes get thwarted by the emergent phenomena. If this is the case then
    there must be some "iron laws" of development, be they physical, social or
    political or emergent that guarantee that not even a single rogue genesis
    gets loose in the universe. This means that we might not be as free as we
    appear to be. Consider that we should soon have the technology to launch
    just such a genesis probe. The iron laws say that this must fail.

    Mark
    Mark Walker, PhD
    Research Associate, Philosophy, Trinity College
    University of Toronto
    Room 214 Gerald Larkin Building
    15 Devonshire Place
    Toronto
    M5S 1H8
    www.permanentend.org



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