RE: flame wars

From: Phil Osborn (philosborn2001@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Jul 20 2003 - 17:34:28 MDT

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    Having observed this going on for several years now,
    and having myself started quite a number of both the
    major discussion threads and also several truly
    spectacular flame wars, my only real gripe is how long
    it takes to dig thru all this mess to get to the
    interesting news and thoughts.

    Having said that, I would like to point out one
    overwhelming fact: most of the flame wars are
    recursive and self-sustaining. Most of them appear to
    start out with someone making some statement that
    offends someone else. The someone else then escalates
    to claiming that the statement in question is SO
    OFFENSIVE! that it has no business being there. Then
    the first person - or perhaps a third party - comes
    back with a further escalation to - "Who are YOU to
    say what should be posted?"

    So, a minor issue that could have been simply ignored
    or commented on in a neutral, non-offensive tone as
    being inappropriate to the EXTROPY list triggers a
    whole passionate, often vitriolic series of
    escalations to the point of name-calling and
    not-so-vieled threats of exclusion or expulsion.

    This clearly has a chilling effect upon people who
    might have something interesting to say but have no
    desire to be drawn into such silly contests. When
    you're expending energy dealing with one of these
    useless epiphenomyna, then that's that much less
    energy you have to put into something productive. One
    shouldn't have to worry that much about what other
    people will think, especially on the EXTROPY list,
    which is by definition concerned with what is new,
    exciting, controversial. If we're going that route,
    then we should just appoint a censor, and submit
    everything to him/her.

    With regard to the problem of filtering, ISIL has
    taken over a libertarian news group recently which
    uses a rating system for posters, based on the ratings
    that other readers make for their posts. Perhaps a
    dual rating system might work even better. I'm
    thinking about a cumulative rating system for authors
    of posts, together with a rating of individual posts.
    This might cut down on the wasted time.

    However, often it is the very people who are most on
    the cutting edge - almost by definition - who will get
    the lowest ratings. So, a possible third element
    would be the flatness or spread of ratings. If a few
    people like some post a LOT, then that itself may be a
    noteworthy fact. If someone is so far out that NO ONE
    can appreciate them, then what is the point of the
    post anyway, except for saying it for the record,
    perhaps, which I do occasionally, knowing that no one
    will agree with me (but I know that I will often get
    to say years later "I told you so!").

    The best method, of course, would be that employed
    first by FIREFLY, before the Borg ate them and their
    work disappeared or got patented away from public use.
     FIREFLY's system asked you your preferences over a
    wide range of fields and then, when you were looking
    for a book, movie, restaurant, date, whatever, it
    would look for profiles otherwise matching yours and
    assign weighted ratings to the choices it returned, as
    in, "People similar to you in their prior choices
    liked this book."

    Amazon uses a similar system, as in, if you liked
    this, then you will probably like ....

    (In the early '80's, I designed a much more
    sophisticated system that encompasses both what Amazon
    and FIREFLY did and would be a thousand times better
    as a filter, but so far no one has been interested in
    even hearing the details on it. But that's another
    subject. NIH uber alles.)

    Perhaps someone who is into JAVA or SQL or some other
    server-side programming could either write or find an
    open-source model for this that the EXTROPY news group
    could use?

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