From: matus@matus1976.com
Date: Sun Jun 08 2003 - 21:01:27 MDT
Humania wrote:
>
> Robert Bradbury wrote:
>
> > One of the most interesting things that the U.S. could do is to launch
> > a satellite system to provide an alternate point of view to Al Jazeera.
> > Esp. if they could get it to be managed by an an "independent"
> group (the
> > Japanese or Russians perhaps???).
>
> Yes, pleeeeeeeaze install another multiplier of Pentagon and White House
> lies. That is exactly what the world has desperately waited for.
>
As opposed to the paragon of truth that the Al Jazeera channel represented?
Yeah, they *never* lied, nor did they have two prominent members revealed to
be stooges of Saddam in a recent London newspaper expose.
> Meanwhile I am trying to find a new language to communicate
> my extreme disgust at the way some incurable patriots here still stick to
> His Phoniness George "Proud 'n' Pray" W. Bush and his gang of deathists,
> called US government. How many more times must you be fucked up by these
> dilapidated religious fundamentalists before you chase them into
> the desert?
>
And I am trying to find a new languate to communicate my extreme disgust at
the way some incurable america haters still stick to the US is the root of
all evil propogandadists bent on world communist domination called france,
germany, and the peace activists. How many more times must you be fucked up
by these dilapidated religious fundamentalists before you chase them into
the desert? Note, preceding statements contain sarcasm. Humania, yet again
I am trying to illustrate that your spewing emotional blather about the US
and its actions do *absolutely nothing* to change the 'incurable patriots'
(as you call them) minds about the US and its actions. Since you call them
'incurable' what is the point of your comments, if your merely preaching to
the choir, I cant see the value of your posts.
> I always thought this list was originally dedicated
> to the enhancement of man
It is, it is also painfully obvious that your idea of what actions will
enhance man are different then mine and others on this list, indeed, there
are probably as many ideas about how to enhance man (mankind, civilization,
etc) as their are people on this list. What makes your version of it
deserve more praise?
> and not to the sick propaganda of spreading
> potentially apocalyptic violence and mega-effective death all
> over the world
Prove that the actions we support are accurately described by your
charactherizations. I have called you to task on your statements time and
time again, presented a bulleted list of points that those who supported the
War in Iraq felt justified in supporting it why supporting it was extropic,
and asked anyone to refute *any* of the points. I saw no refutations. You
have not bothered. Its seems your tactic is to just spew emotional vomit ad
nauseam until we start listening to you, it aint working. Please make a
modicum of an effort to convince us empirically of your interpretation of
actions occuring in the world, or keep quiet, imho. If the evidence
supports your conclusions that the US's actions will lead to the end of the
world, you shouldnt have much difficulty convincing a good number of members
on this list of that, I have, as of yet, seen you make no effort to present
evidence supporting you implication that the US's actions will lead to
'apocalyptic violence' although you did add a 'potentially' qualifier.
> and - worst of all - even being PROUD of it and still having the nerve to
> call oneself a transhumanist.
>
And you are proud of opposing the military ousting of one of the most
murderous and corrupt regimes in the world, simply because, as you have
previously stated, you dont want the US to be given sanction on other
possible future actions. Because you feared what the US might do in the
future, you opposed a historically unprecendented military endeveour with
fewer civilian causalities than any war in history, which freed 20 million
people from the chains of a ruthless tyrant. And YOU call YOURSELF a
transhumanist, name one Iraq policy that supported any extropian memes.
> In the spirit of peace, love and the enhancement of man:
Oddly enough, I claim to be acting in that spirit as well, whos right? How
can we tell?
>
> Turn your back on the brutality of the American interpretation of
> capitalism!
And what interpretation of capitalism do you suggest we embrace? The
canadian 'interpretation'? The German? And what does America's
interpretation of capitalism have to do with the morallity of the Invasion
in Iraq anyway? This is more like a "speaking of things I dont like about
America, lets bring up its 'interpretation of capitalism' " puuhleeease.
What else dont you like about America, I have nothing better to do than
listen to your anti-america rants.
Please make a modicum of effort to prove empirically, yet again, that
Americas interpretation of capitalism is 'brutal' America has the highest
per capita and median income in the world, Americas interpretation of
capitalism drove to bankruptucy the most ruthless and murderous regime the
world has ever known, communism. America is the leading food producer of
the world, and is capable of this solely because of its 'ruthless
capitalism' enables it to produce food cheaper than anywhere else in the
world, and subesequently the worlds poorest of the poor recieve more
calories today then they did 50 years ago, and the percentage of people
starving to death in the world is lower than it has ever been. Then only
thing preventing a continual decline in the number of people starving to
death is the idiotic embrace of 3rd world murderous tyrants by well meaning
but ignorant who value criticizing the US over the lives of people in 3rd
world countries.
Try not to be part of the establishment, because it
> might twist
> your mind in the wrong direction
And of course the *right* direction happens to also be your direction. As
the church lady would say 'well.. isnt that convenient'
> and deprive you of your compassion
> towards the poor and the weak, and towards those who are not natural
> born collegeboys.
You may have all the compassion in the world, but the policies and ideals
you embrace hurt the poor people of the world. As I noted above, the
'brutal' American interpretation of capitalism has done more for the poor in
the world (and in the US) than any countries economic system EVER HAS. I
note the US saved the ENTIRE world TWICE this century. It could not have
done this under differening economic systems. Communism, which actually
claims as an idealogical goal to be better for the poor, has killed 170
million people *this century* It is likely that America's 'brutal'
capitalism has probably saved that many.
> Wake up! There is no such thing as security. It may hit you any time
> and any place.
On this point, I am probably in agreement with you, I think much of the
spending to ensure the security of American citizens is a waste.
> Take a look for innovative ways to trick the neural patches where the
> antagonists of the human ability to love and be *actively* peaceful rule:
Love and peace do not conquer all, Love did not conquer the Communist Khmere
Rouge, the love of a mother to her child did not prevent its head from
getting smashed against trees under the rule of the 'for the poor people'
communists in Cambodia. Guns and weapons and American troops would have
prevented it, unfortunately the US liberal majority decided to let the
people of indochina rot and suffer.
>
> America must not win all the time!
>
Americas enemies must NOT win all the time! Boy, what a productive
conversation.
> Relax and Fear Not: The Bush and NeoCon nightmare will hopefully
> be history by 2004.
Relax and fear not, the neo con effort to spread democracy, freedom, and
capitalism throughout the world will continue on in 2004. Oppressive
dictatorial and communist regimes beware. Despite a lot of whinning by
social anrachist luddite communists.
>
> For a new kind of transhumanism of social fairness where the poor and the
> losers get a fair chance.
>
And what system would you suggest where they get a 'fair' chance. Please,
also, define 'fair' and 'chance'.
Regards,
Michael Dickey
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Jun 08 2003 - 20:57:22 MDT