Re: Cryonics and uploading as leaps of faith? EY

From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@optusnet.com.au)
Date: Fri Jun 27 2003 - 02:25:02 MDT

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    Eliezer S. Yudkowsky writes:

    > Lee Corbin wrote:
    > >
    > > But if you are the same person that you were last month,
    > > and you are the same person after you wake up from a
    > > coma wherein your EEG was zero for an extended period,
    > > then what are you besides information? What else could
    > > you possibly be?

    A clear definition of information in this context would be helpful.

    Maybe others are information to one and one is information to
    others but one is more than information to oneself. One can
    think of others as interpreted data streams. But one experiences
    oneself as more than a data stream. One experiences oneself as
    a continuing process. Perhaps this experience *is* illusory, but it
    would seem that the burden of proving that such is illusory should
    rest not with those who hold a more traditional view of the self,
    such as, "I have a self (whatever that is) and its uninterrupted
    continuance matters to me", but with those who would argue for
    a more limited view of the self as mere illusion and information
    irrespective of energy flow.

    {Eliezer}
    > If you are the same person you were 10^43 Planck
    > increments ago, even though all of the matter waves in
    > your body have shifted places, why would you not be
    > the same person after a slightly different interaction within
    > the same huge wavefunction?

    I don't understand your question because I am not familiar
    with "matter waves" or what is meant by the phrase "a slightly
    different interaction within the same huge wavefunction".

    Is it actually *necessary* to understand these concepts to get
    at the truth here? Maybe it is. If so, I think the truth in this
    respect is not likely to overlap with the general public's
    worldview any time real soon.

    <snip>

    > You are dynamics of
    > information in a probability distribution, dynamics distributed
    > over an unimaginable number of changes and interactions,
    > stretched over an incredibly long time period.

    I'm lost, I think, because I've not following your use of the term
    information. Self referential information seems to be more than
    information to me.
     
    > Uploading is a
    > change scarcely more drastic, and no more high-level, than
    > the changes your brain is undergoing right now.

    > It is only
    > the appearance of substance, the illusion of stuff, that leads
    > you to think there is any difference between just standing
    > there having a temporally evolving brain and being uploaded.
    > Each is a physical evolution that preserves complex
    > correlations in the wavefunction, and this is all that matters.

    Maybe if I get a better handle on this wavefunctions thing I'll
    be more knowledgeable and need to take less of a "leap".

    But if an explanation can be crafted which doesn't need
    quantum physics it will be easier to propagate.

    Regards,
    Brett Paatsch
    (I'll go wipe the sand off my face now ;-)



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