Re: Rightness and Utility of Patriotism

From: Eliezer S. Yudkowsky (sentience@pobox.com)
Date: Tue Jun 24 2003 - 10:19:52 MDT

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    Robin Hanson wrote:
    > On 6/23/2003, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
    >
    >>>>> ... Most of the "disagreements" on the list are not really
    >>>>> disagreements.
    >>>>> Different people have different data or assign different values.
    >>>>> Most of the facts themselves are not in dispute. ...
    >>
    >> I disagreed that "the facts themselves are not in dispute" and that
    >> disputes derive from assigning different values. It seems to me that
    >> much of the disputation derives from disagreement on facts, and the
    >> remainder from differences on values that are perceived as
    >> disagreements and on which people would not agree to disagree. Little
    >> of it appears to be genuinely "assigning different" values.
    >
    > I agree with Eliezer; most disagreements on this list are not on their
    > face people declaring different values. That may be the real cause
    > behind the scenes, but the actual statements that people dispute seem to
    > mostly be statements about which of many possible worlds the actual
    > world is.

    Some disputes about values are not statements about which of many possible
    worlds the actual world is, unless you extend possible-world semantics to
    cover alternate laws of mathematics or inconsistent worlds; some disputes
    about values are disputes about the output of a computational process.
    For example, two people arguing about "rationality" are better thought of
    as arguing about properties emergent in Bayesian decision theory, rather
    than arguing about the contents of a black box labeled "rationality" which
    contains different things in different possible worlds. There's a black
    box, but it's internal, not external, and it contains the same thing in
    all possible worlds which obey our rules of mathematics.

    -- 
    Eliezer S. Yudkowsky                          http://singinst.org/
    Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence
    


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