From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Tue Jun 17 2003 - 17:41:01 MDT
Eliezer writes
> Lee Corbin wrote:
> >
> > Quite right. That is what is going on. But in addition
> > there is also
> >
> > * joining the good fight against bad memes
> > * venting one's feelings
> > * standing up for the underdog
> >
> > and more, I suspect. The first on my list of three here is
> > what inspires crusaders to fight for the oppressed, and gives
> > them energy that the Bayesians lack. I have respect for the
> > crusaders (occasionally I am one), both the ones for and against
> > the ideas I support. They have played and will play a crucial
> > role in history and in society.
>
> *I'm* not a crusader? Think about this one carefully.
Sorry. You are indeed a crusader for certain things.
And about those things you will hardly be unbiased.
I don't know if that makes you less of a "Bayesian"
on those subjects in certain discussions.
> Also, do you think that patriotic cheerleading actually helps anyone, or
> for that matter, accomplishes anything significant at all?
Yes.
> I do not count cheerleading as "fighting for the oppressed".
But it often has been. Whether it would be physically cheering
the speakers in 1920 at a woman's rights meeting, or writing a
"me too" letter in the newspaper about Chinese government abuses
does (perhaps unfortunately) have an effect.
But I would have to know more what you mean by "cheerleading".
Mere cheering is while (sadly) effective, it could be that
cheer-leading mobilizes support. Are you being as careful as
you'd like to be as you re-label and thus re-characterize
some activity that we had been calling by other terms? (Namely
patriotism?)
> It would appear some people think they can make their basketball team win
> by rooting at the television set. Enthusiasm is not effectiveness.
> Harvey Newstrom has described the only actual effect of all their
> shouting: sharply negative on the real-world events that matter.
I would be the first to find fault with demonstrations and
"me too", or "yay!" type support. That's why I am interested
in carefully reasoned discourse. But when you use such broad
terms I'm not sure I know what exactly you are talking about,
or whether, for sure, you are describing activity on this list.
Lee
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