Re: META: Dishonest debate

From: Mark Walker (mark@permanentend.org)
Date: Mon Jun 16 2003 - 11:13:00 MDT

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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Robin Hanson" <rhanson@gmu.edu>
    > Let me suggest the main problem is that people don't realize that there
    really
    > are such things as social sciences, which can be just as "scientific" as
    other
    > "sciences", but are far less deferred to. The public can read that a
    > physicist says some weird thing or another and the usual reaction is "how
    > fascinating, I didn't know that", even if they have little idea what it
    means,
    > but if a social scientist says some well established thing that goes
    against
    > popular wishes, such as that a minimum wage raises unemployment, the
    reaction
    > will be a quick dismissal. Alas, one of the myths of democracy is that
    there
    > should be no social experts, so that every thought that occurs to anyone
    on
    > social issues is as valid as anything any "expert" says. It's just not
    so.
    >

    I'm not sure about this characterization of democracy versus the social
    science. I think there are plausible historical studies (e.g., Weber or
    Macintyre (most notably in _After Virtue__) that describe the rise of the
    social sciences and the social expert. Their narratives describe the rise of
    such experts in terms of their ability to tell us the most efficient way to
    achieve some social end. The ends themselves are not open to scientific
    scrutiny, since ends involve values, and values lack "factual content" they
    are grounded merely in the assertion of our wills. They hey day of this
    conception was in the earlier part of the twentieth century. I'll grant you
    that this conception has come under attack by what--for a lack of a better
    term--are certain postmodern conceptions of the social science. One PM claim
    is that the idea of social scientists being able to tell us in some purely
    scientific way the most efficient means to achieve some value is an
    illusion, that the idea of social experts managing the "means" aspect of
    social organization is an illusion ( a mask to hide their wills). This view
    then might agree with your claim that the social scientist is not to be
    listened to when they say something like a minimum wage increases
    unemployment. Those that hold that social scientist can only inform us about
    means or"facts" might say that perhaps it is true that a minimum wage
    increases unemployment but this does not show whether the fact that a
    minimum wage increases unemployment is a good or a bad thing. (Perhaps the
    view is that some forms of employment are less valuable than unemployment).
    This view of social science as a manager of "means" only has also come under
    attack from the other more traditional quarter (cf. MacIntyre) which says
    that there are social experts but their expertise covers both means and
    ends, facts and values. (MacIntyre defends this idea by claiming in part
    that all moral theory presupposes some social theory, and all social theory
    presupposes some moral view).

    Mark

    Mark Walker, PhD
    Research Associate, Philosophy, Trinity College
    University of Toronto
    Room 214 Gerald Larkin Building
    15 Devonshire Place
    Toronto
    M5S 1H8
    www.permanentend.org



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