From: Paul Grant (shade999@optonline.net)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2003 - 02:23:10 MDT
"Paul Grant" <shade999@optonline.net>
> It [911] brought out the current policies to light, didn't
it?
If you think 911 will ever lead the American people to demand
their government have a more sympathetic policy toward Palestine then
you must be smoking some very funny cigarettes.
Me: I suppose we'll see, eh? Certes, it certainly got the Bush
administration to draw up a road map to peace rather quickly.
>There's documented proof all over the place of Israeli's human
rights
>violations
Sure there is, big deal. The world is full of injustice and every people
has had bad things happen to them and Palestinians are no exception, but
if you want to explain the unprecedented volcanic rage consuming the
entire Islamic world from Algeria to Indonesia you're going to have to
come up with some unprecedented horror inflicted on all of Islam (not
just the tiny percentage that is Palestinian) the likes of which no
other people have ever experienced in the history of the world; and
after that you need to explain why Jews don't crash airliners into
German skyscrapers.
Me: Perhaps muslims are simply fed up with the situation and willing to
do something about it.
And in regards to Jews, you've just acknowledged they're killing people
on a regular basis.
Doing it piecemeal doesn't make it any less horrifying than doing it all
at once :)
> Islam is a brotherhood, and ALL muslims are troubled when
> one of them is attacked.
Brotherhood? Muslims have killed far more Muslims than the West could
ever dream of doing.
Me: Same could be said of Christianity :) Even more to the point, its
generally politics that gets
people killed, not religions... religions are just the moral qualifier.
I have yet to see a religion,
for instance, that endorses psychopathy.
> So then let them democratically elect their brainless thugs than
Let them? Islam has no history of democracy, it's not in their culture,
even today Turkey is the only country that comes close, but if they want
to turn democratic that's fine with me. However even if they have a vote
and decide that all Americans should die I'm still not going down
without a fight. You mention democracy a lot, you seem to think it will
solve all the world's problems, it's kinda cute.
Me: I think it will satisfy them; and thats what its all about eh?
Compromise. Achieving a win-win situation.
>But ya did get your ass spanked in Vietnam
True, but judging from what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq it doesn't
look like that's going to happen again anytime soon. Muslims make lousy
soldiers, especially Arabs.
Me: Take a look at history, whats goes around, comes around. And the
lesson you should have learned from Vietnam (imho),
my fine-feathered friend, is that guerilla warfare with extremely
motivated troops can overcome any technology based advantages.
Just ask the French :)
>you support Israel
You have a simplistic black and white attitude, the Arabs are the good
guys and Israel is the bad guy. I think they're both bad, the only
difference is one crashes airliners into American skyscrapers and one
does not.
Me: Israel the state is the bad guy in my world picture; and while I may
not care for the average
Israeli's airs of superiority, I do acknowledge they have a right to
live there. Just not in its current
configuration (1948+). Sorry. The state of Israel is simply too
destablizing to the region. Whats truely
ironic is that there were Jews in Palestine living side-by-side with
Palestinians quite nicely prior to the
foundation of Israel by Britain and the UN. Since its establishment,
there have been countless wars in
the region. Pretty much (in my opinion) the only thing propping up
Israel is (previous and current)
US military and financial aid.
And as to simplistic black and white attitudes, well, we all have are
opinions :)
omard-out
PS> I'm sorry I won't be able to respond if you feel a further need to
respond;
I will be traveling shortly, and my internet connectivity (or rather,
ability to respond)
will be very much non-existent. If you would like, I would be happy to
continue to answer
any questions you may have offlist, but the
answers/responses/conversation will be at
least a month in coming. Obviously feel free to discuss amongst
yourselves :)
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