RE: The Iraq war was extropian? Re: [Iraq] The real reason for the war

From: Paul Grant (shade999@optonline.net)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2003 - 02:23:10 MDT

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    "Paul Grant" <shade999@optonline.net>

    > It [911] brought out the current policies to light, didn't
    it?

            If you think 911 will ever lead the American people to demand
    their government have a more sympathetic policy toward Palestine then
    you must be smoking some very funny cigarettes.

    Me: I suppose we'll see, eh? Certes, it certainly got the Bush
    administration to draw up a road map to peace rather quickly.

    >There's documented proof all over the place of Israeli's human
    rights
    >violations

    Sure there is, big deal. The world is full of injustice and every people
    has had bad things happen to them and Palestinians are no exception, but
    if you want to explain the unprecedented volcanic rage consuming the
    entire Islamic world from Algeria to Indonesia you're going to have to
    come up with some unprecedented horror inflicted on all of Islam (not
    just the tiny percentage that is Palestinian) the likes of which no
    other people have ever experienced in the history of the world; and
    after that you need to explain why Jews don't crash airliners into
    German skyscrapers.

    Me: Perhaps muslims are simply fed up with the situation and willing to
    do something about it.
    And in regards to Jews, you've just acknowledged they're killing people
    on a regular basis.
    Doing it piecemeal doesn't make it any less horrifying than doing it all
    at once :)

    > Islam is a brotherhood, and ALL muslims are troubled when
    > one of them is attacked.

    Brotherhood? Muslims have killed far more Muslims than the West could
    ever dream of doing.

    Me: Same could be said of Christianity :) Even more to the point, its
    generally politics that gets
    people killed, not religions... religions are just the moral qualifier.
    I have yet to see a religion,
    for instance, that endorses psychopathy.

    > So then let them democratically elect their brainless thugs than

    Let them? Islam has no history of democracy, it's not in their culture,
    even today Turkey is the only country that comes close, but if they want
    to turn democratic that's fine with me. However even if they have a vote
    and decide that all Americans should die I'm still not going down
    without a fight. You mention democracy a lot, you seem to think it will
    solve all the world's problems, it's kinda cute.

    Me: I think it will satisfy them; and thats what its all about eh?
    Compromise. Achieving a win-win situation.

    >But ya did get your ass spanked in Vietnam
    True, but judging from what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq it doesn't
    look like that's going to happen again anytime soon. Muslims make lousy
    soldiers, especially Arabs.

    Me: Take a look at history, whats goes around, comes around. And the
    lesson you should have learned from Vietnam (imho),
    my fine-feathered friend, is that guerilla warfare with extremely
    motivated troops can overcome any technology based advantages.
    Just ask the French :)

    >you support Israel

    You have a simplistic black and white attitude, the Arabs are the good
    guys and Israel is the bad guy. I think they're both bad, the only
    difference is one crashes airliners into American skyscrapers and one
    does not.

    Me: Israel the state is the bad guy in my world picture; and while I may
    not care for the average
    Israeli's airs of superiority, I do acknowledge they have a right to
    live there. Just not in its current
    configuration (1948+). Sorry. The state of Israel is simply too
    destablizing to the region. Whats truely
    ironic is that there were Jews in Palestine living side-by-side with
    Palestinians quite nicely prior to the
    foundation of Israel by Britain and the UN. Since its establishment,
    there have been countless wars in
    the region. Pretty much (in my opinion) the only thing propping up
    Israel is (previous and current)
    US military and financial aid.

    And as to simplistic black and white attitudes, well, we all have are
    opinions :)

    omard-out

    PS> I'm sorry I won't be able to respond if you feel a further need to
    respond;
    I will be traveling shortly, and my internet connectivity (or rather,
    ability to respond)
    will be very much non-existent. If you would like, I would be happy to
    continue to answer
    any questions you may have offlist, but the
    answers/responses/conversation will be at
    least a month in coming. Obviously feel free to discuss amongst
    yourselves :)



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