From: Paul Grant (shade999@optonline.net)
Date: Sat Jun 14 2003 - 15:29:00 MDT
"Paul Grant" < <mailto:shade999@optonline.net> shade999@optonline.net>
First, if you're going to post surrah's, post the surrah/verse numbers
:)
That way I can read it in its original and respond within the context
the surrah provides....
Second, the major theme of the koran, indeed the overriding theme,
is attack only when someone attacks you or your faith; the main
exception
being the execution of prisoners found guilty by a preponderance of
doubt.
Thirdly, in relation to the treatment of Jews and Christians, vs
Muslims, vs Pagans,
there is a clear preference for Muslims to marry muslims; however, in
failing
to find a muslim wife (or husband) that is suitable, you should marry
from the
Peoples of the Book (Jews and Christians), followed lastly by the
marriage to
Pagans. The primary reason this is proscribed is because of the
confusion it
causes in children from dual-religion backgrounds. As to out and out
killing
jews and christians solely because of their choice in faith, that is not
condoned within the Koran. You may however, defend your faith from
slander,
and defend yourself, your family, and your fellow muslims from physical
attack
or harm at the hands of others. In point of fact, aside from the surrah
of
which I quoted originally "kil u ayuhah al kafaroon" explicitly protects
religious freedom, and the only permitted discrimination on non-muslim
believers is
the levy of an additional tax; The reason for that tax is that Muslims
(under an islamic
govt) all contribute roughly 10% of their income to the poor as a form
of welfare.
And given that it is a religious tithe, rather than a government one, a
tax is imposed
on non-Muslims to compensate; in effect, they're forced to kick in as
well.
There are volumes written about what is permissible and not permissible,
and
a complete legal system derived from the Koran and other 'sacred'
sources,
and how non-Muslims should be treated in relation to the Shuria. The
other major
difference, from an economic standpoint, is that of the prohibition on
interest.
And speaking spiritually, the reason for the preference for
Jews and Christians is clear; we're technically worshipping the
same monotheistic god (versus the pagans, who of course, generally
speaking, violate the one god belief). Pretty much the only difference
is that Christians think Jesus was the son of god, and both Jews and
Christians refuse to recognize mohammed as a prophet.
And just to reel this all back in, the only duty a muslim has to a
non-muslim
is to inform him that there is one god, named allah and mohammed was his
messenger. After that, any failure to convert (ergo recognize the one
true god)
is a failure on your part, and you are judged accordingly. Anyone who
has not
heard the call of Islam, is not responsible for his lack of recognition
for the message,
and is judged based on his actions, and not any of the specific
performances required
that form the five pillars of Islam (e.g. how kind they've been).
There's your religion of "violence, religious suppression and
terrorism".
My advice, leave them alone, they're on a *completely* different trip
than
westerners.
Oh, and for your wonderful comment about discrimination, why don't you
go check
out mecca; there's 0 racial problems there, EVERYBODY is equal,
regardless of race,
caste or social status.
omard-out
BTW - I'm leaving for a trip tomorrow, so we're going to have to finish
up this
discussion by tomorrow (Sunday, 12pm EST).
>freedom of religion is gauranteed under the Koran
Like all sacred texts the Koran is full of contradictions, if you look
hard enough you can find some nice warm inoffensive platitudes in it,
but I don't see how you can say it GUARANTEES religious freedom
when these gems are also in the book:
"Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers will you find the
Jews and Pagans"
"fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them,
beleaguer them and lie in wait for them."
"Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder
in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut
off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land"
"make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously
with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."
"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends."
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you
find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere
for them."
"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their
heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Then grant them their freedom or take a ransom from them"
John K Clark jonkc@att.net
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Jun 14 2003 - 15:40:18 MDT