Re: [Politics] Re: The United Nations: Unfit to govern

From: Wei Dai (weidai@weidai.com)
Date: Tue May 06 2003 - 13:13:10 MDT

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    On Mon, May 05, 2003 at 02:22:39PM +1000, Brett Paatsch wrote:
    > There is a lot of truth in this I think. The first purpose of the UN
    > was and should be international peace and security. Without that
    > working the human rights stuff and the world court stuff is ultimately
    > farcical (and increasingly it is being seen to be farcical).

    Historically one of the most important ways that human rights spread was
    for states not respecting human rights to be militarily defeated by states
    that did. The defeated states adopted human rights either because they
    were conquered and taken over, or as a side effect of economic and
    political reforms that allowed them to better defend themselves in the
    future. There's a great book about the historical interactions between
    war, military strategy, international law, and constitutional law. It's
    titled The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace, and the Course of History by
    Philip Bobbitt. I recommend this book highly and it is very relevant to
    the current discussion.

    What makes the UN's version of human rights farcical is not the lack of
    world peace and security but the notion that human rights can be achieved
    through an organization based on the principle of "one government, one
    vote" with no qualification for what constitutes a legitimate government.
    What would prevent Libya from heading the human rights commission even if
    we had world peace today?

    Roosevelt clearly made a big mistake with the U.N. The security council
    represents the alliance that defeated Germany and Japan in WW2, and the
    general assembly allows any government to have a vote. But what made him
    think that the alliance could be permanent? Or that the general assembly
    wouldn't be taken over by a coalition of repressive and corrupt
    governments? I'd really like to know what he was thinking at the time so
    we can avoid making the same mistakes again.

    Of course one way to avoid those mistakes is to simply not have a U.N. 3.
    For the forseeable future, the United States seems capable of achieving
    what it wants through ad hoc "coalitions of the willing". What does it
    have to gain from creating a U.N. 3?

    Brett seems to favor a U.N. not for itself, but as a step to something
    better in the future. But what? Where do you want this "bootstrap process"
    to take us?



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