From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Apr 22 2003 - 19:16:15 MDT
--- gts <gts_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Damien Sullivan wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 02:20:57AM -0400, gts wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, I think I understand now what you and Diamond mean. <snip>
>
> > See, for me "destructive nature" is roughly synonymous with
> > "tends to destroy things", not with "deliberately
> > vandalistic". And naive exploitation of the environment is
> > destructive, as reflected by the extinct species, and the
> > many civilizations which have damaged their own environment,
> > which I thought Diamond was going to write about in another
> > book by now. Deliberately destroyed? No. But destroyed just the
> > same.
>
> Yes, that's my take also, now that mez has helped me understand
> Diamond.
>
> Apparently Diamond takes a behaviorist view of human nature. He is
> not
> interested in what might be going on the conscious minds of the
> alleged
> perpetrators. If their behavior tends to result in the destruction of
> things, e.g., destruction of a species of animals through
> over-hunting, then
> the nature of those humans was "destructive" even if the humans were
> acting
> innocently in a naive effort to feed themselves.
>
> I'm not a fan of behaviorism but I can understand Diamond in those
> terms.
I don't think that behaviorism is necessarily required to understand
what he is getting at. Animals naturally eat and reproduce to fill
their habitat niche to capacity. If their food source cannot replenish
fast enough, there are die offs and food sources are eventually made
extinct. Look at goats and sheep that infest so many islands denuded of
trees, bushes, and much of everything else.
Since man developed enough technology to be immune to most other
predators most of the time, any natural upper level check on their
population was eliminated, while they still sought their prey.
Additionally, man's invention of language and religion made killing
certain animals at a certain rate a requirement of human culture: so
many musk oxen, so many musk deer, so many cave bear, so many
sabretooths to satisfy the needs of so many religious festivals.
=====
Mike Lorrey
"Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
- Gen. John Stark
"Pacifists are Objectively Pro-Fascist." - George Orwell
"Treason doth never Prosper. What is the Reason?
For if it Prosper, none Dare call it Treason..." - Ovid
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