RE: Patriotism

From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Mon Apr 07 2003 - 23:12:47 MDT

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    Lee Daniel Crocker writes

    > > I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
    > > States of America, and to the republic for
    > > which it stands, one nation indivisible with
    > > liberty and justice for all.
    > >
    > > American patriots are those individuals who can read these
    > > words, and agree with every nuance of sentiment they contain,
    > > and who indeed are themselves allied with that republic.
    >
    > If you /had/ to recite it, then it's meaningless; you were just
    > following the crowd.

    It's perhaps hard to credit, but a lot of history was created by
    people who acted as a part of something larger than themselves;
    who believed that they were a part of a nation, or who believed
    that they had a people. I understand that this does not resonate
    with some very strong individualists, for whom practically all
    communal feeling is alien.

    > If you've ever /freely chosen/ to recite it, then I might think
    > it had some meaning. I certainly never have, and never will,
    > choose to willingly pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth, but
    > that's just me.

    Yes; symbolism also plays a factor in many people's thinking, but
    not everyone's. A number of people are really moved by the symbols
    of their nation, or of their ideological movement. But certainly
    not everyone.

    > The republic for which it stands is of course a different matter,
    > but I'm not sure "allegiance" is something I can admire there either.

    Patriotism is not for everyone.

    Samantha writes

    > A country is only as good as its guiding principles. I don't
    > love the country just because I happen to be in it.

    This is getting to the core idea. Suppose that you had been a
    member of a small Indian tribe, say the Menominee, to be specific.
    You grow up noticing that many people have a peculiar loyalty
    to the Menominee, and even join in raids that you had opposed
    against other tribes. You moreover note that many seem to value
    the *existence* of the tribe in a way that transcended the particular
    people of the tribe---that is, they value the traditions and mores
    of the Menominee, and that it was *not* though any allegiance
    to various abstract principles that command their loyalty to the
    tribe. Rather they feel that way about Menominee as members of a
    *group*.

    Do you think that you would have found this alien to your way
    of thinking?

    > > Patriotism, or love of country, is not the same [as endorsement
    > > of principle] at all. Either you have a deep emotional bond to
    > > an actual nation and its people, or you do not. Perhaps only a
    > > small majority of the members of most Western nations today have
    > > such a loyalty.

    > If that is all patriotism is then it is worthless.

    Well, as I said to Lee Daniel, patriotism isn't for everyone.

    Lee



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