From: Steve Davies (steve365@btinternet.com)
Date: Sun Mar 30 2003 - 10:20:01 MST
Lee Says
> Okay. So we turn now to the current event:
>
> > > Then the irony is, the more effort that is made on behalf of
> > > the Iraqi people, then the more imperialistic the U.S. role
> > > will become!
> > > ...to establish a non-authoritarian or less repressive regime
> > > in Iraq would require an extended stay by the Coalition (or
> > > at least U.S.) forces. But the longer the stay, the more this
> > > is a case of liberal imperialism.
> >
Steve replied
> > This is exactly right. As you say paradoxical. BTW the 'beneficiaries'
of
> > the is policy are likely to resent it, even if they do actually benefit.
>
Lee responds
> Well, putting aside for the moment the real motivations behind the
> U.S./U.K., one then wonders what course would indeed in fact benefit
> the Iraqis the most (or hurt them the least). Ramez Naam on this
> list, and perhaps one other person from the Middle East, has weighed
> in heavily to suggest that the U.S. stay for a very long time.
> Evidently his intuition is that Iraq could become democratic, were
> the occupying power sufficiently idealistic and willing to pay what
> ever is required to achieve that goal.
>
> Yet many others demur, including you, from studying the remainder
> of your post, where you write
>
> > if the US adopts a minimal approach of removing WMDs and
> > the Baathists, replacing them with clients (a Hashemite
> > King perhaps?) and then withdrawing most of its military
> > presence, and doesn't try to actually administer or set
> > policy for post Saddam Iraq, then Empire has got the thumbs
> > down.
>
> So I infer that in this case you're opposed to liberal
> imperialism because it won't work. You seem to believe
> that this particular Arabic country at this particular
> time cannot be other than it is; basically, a backward
> nation mixing ancient and modern, which will be ruled
> by someone with an iron hand for a long time to come.
>
> Is that the only reason you're opposed to the current
> U.S./U.K. plans?
No, I don't think Iraq (or any part of the world for that matter) is
destined in some way to remain pre-modern in some significant respect. I
also favour actions/policies that will bring about the 'modernisation' of
Iraq and indeed the entire Middle East. However I do not think, to put it
mildly, that benign imperialism is the way to do this. I suspect that it
will prove to be too much of a burden for the US (never mind the cost of the
war, it's the downstream costs you need to worry about) but even if that is
not the case I believe the result of such a policy will be to strengthen the
already growing anti-modern forces in the region (including within Israel
BTW). In addition to this pragmatic objection I also have a principled
objection. I do not believe in doing things to people by force for their own
good even when it is objectively for their benefit.
Obviously the response is "Well what is your alternative?" My central
argument is that the alternative is not primarily a different government
policy. The question "Should America intervene in [insert part of world]?"
actually means "Should the American government intervene in [place]?" which
begs all sorts of questions. I would make one teensy weensy change to the
question. It should read "Should Americans intervene in [place]". The
response is then a matter of individual judgement and private action. In the
case of the ME I believe Americans (and Brits etc) should intervene, by
assisting groups and individuals, by spreading ideas through organised
propaganda and indirectly through trade. The key thing in the ME and the
Islamic world more generally is to fund and help rationalist Muslims who are
trying to reconstitute the rationalist tradition in Islam (specifically the
Mutazilite tradition). The terrible disaster that has to be fought in this
way is the continuing destruction of moderate Islam by Saudi funded salafist
clerics over the last 20 years. I know you would have to repeal the Logan
Act but I think you should do that anyway.
Steve Davies
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