Re: CHILDREN OF DUNE?

From: JAY DUGGER (duggerj1@charter.net)
Date: Sat Mar 29 2003 - 07:22:58 MST

  • Next message: John K Clark: "[Iraq] More enthusiasm than news in Fox's coverage of war"

    On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:47:59 -0900
      "John Grigg" <starman2100@lycos.com> wrote:
    >On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:14:30
    > Damien Broderick wrote:
    >>Apparently this Frank Herbert miniseries was shown last
    >>week in the US.
    >>There's a certain irony, I suppose (desert warfare, the
    >>frailty of
    >>forecasting the future, `the [x] must flow', etc).
    >>Leaving that aside,
    >>what's the reaction of those extropes who've been viewing
    >>it?
    >>
    >>Damien Broderick
    >>
    >
    I watched only the last half of the final episode while
    visiting a friend. (My home==!TV) He'd never read any of
    Herbert's works, and I spent most of the show explaining
    events.

    [snip]
    >mentally compare it to the (I personally think great)
    >David Lynch Dune motion picture. I thought the first

    I agree. Lynch made a good, if atypical, movie of Dune.

    >I definitely thought the timing of the series was quite
    >interesting to say the least. Besides the very obvious
    >"the spice must flow" analogy, I felt the program hit
    >home when it showed a power-hungry ruler who caused great
    >pain and sacrifice on the part of others before being
    >brought down. Saddam, though, is certainly not a (at
    >least somewhat) sympathetic character like the very
    >beautiful and twisted Alia! lol

    I had to remind my ignorant non-extrope friend while we
    watched the movie of all the symbolism in Herbert's story.
    Spice::oil, religion, messianic characters both failed and
    realized, etc. Most of the religous aspects of the story
    didn't come across on TV. Alia seemed too willing a party
    in her own possession; her tragic aspects seemed entirely
    absent.

    Still, the mini-series captured the book's richness pretty
    well. Seeing it on TV struck me with some of Dune's
    transhuman aspects. You have lots of weakly superhuman
    characters, too many to list. The Ixians and Guildsmen
    stand out here with their Face Dancers, gholas, and
    Navigators. Common life extension through melange, and a
    more radical sort with the gholas. (Yes, the biology's
    bad. Move on.) Even the race-memory of the Bene Gesserit
    provides survival for personalities--uploads of a sort
    running on human minds.
    A nice point that might not have come across the small
    screen: gholas (clones) are people too.

    You also see in Dune something neglected in our community
    and in the fiction we favor: the frightening aspect of
    severe self-transformation. Paul Atredies hadn't the
    courage to do what Leto did. Faced with the same choice
    and with the
    same opportunity, Paul retained his humanity. Leto
    abandoned his for a greater good. This also parallels the
    New Testament. Paul and Leto resemble Christ in the Garden
    of Gesthemane, where Jesus wished to decline the bitter
    cup. Paul shows a path-not-taken where Jesus didn't make
    the self-sacrifice. Leto shows the result of the story we
    all know well. That Paul later resembles John the Baptist
    doesn't hurt this analogy too much. Liet-Kynes looks more
    like JtB.

    [snippety-snip]

    >The special effects CGI was fairly good, but the worms in
    >the Lynch film looked much more real to me. Still, it
    >was good enough to not really detract from the series.

    Here I disagree. SPFX seemed adequate in the part I saw,
    but only just. Dune has an impressive setting, but very
    little visual sizzle--stone-cutters excepted.
    Post-transform Leto particularly disappointed me. That
    costume left the actor looking far too normal. Granted, he
    did show a lot of skin in it and that probably helped
    ratings. My co-viewing friend did notice the character
    strolled about the desert sans stillsuit, though.

    > The sets were quite opulant and the costumes sometimes
    >badly over the top (in some cases) as in the first
    >series.
    >

    When I get to be President-for-Life of USA, much less
    Emperor of the Known Universe, you bet I'll have a far-out
    set of clothes! Think of a cross between Emperor Norton I
    and Steve Mann. :-) Seriously, this complaint shows up a
    good deal, but it didn't bother me. YMMV.

    >I cared about the characters I was seeing on the screen
    >due to the good script and solid acting. I suppose my

    The adaptation seemed good and the acting matched. Sci-Fi
    will show Riverworld next here in USA. I'd rather see them
    adapt other of Farmer's work: Empire of the Nine, Flesh,
    Barnstormer in Oz, or A Feast Unknown. None of that seems
    at all likely. Other Herbert adaptations would also be
    nice: Hellstrom's Hive (with Lynch or Cronenberg
    directing), or the novel about submarines.

    >P.S. I have a fantasy about turning on the news to see
    >President Bush clad in a stillsuit while before the
    >troops in Iraq. "Dubya'Dib! Dubya'Dib!" they all chant as
    >he raises his arms to them. The Republican party messiah
    >thunders out the words "The spice must flow!" and then
    >hops on the back of a genetically engineered giant Texas
    >steer (like Paul Bunyan's "Babe") and charges toward
    >Baghdad with several U.S. armored divisions following his
    >inspired lead.
    >
    >It could happen...
    >
    Gack! Then we'd later have Condeleeza Rice (channeling the
    spirit of Dick Cheney) as regent while Rumsfeld ran a
    hush-hush oil-for-goodies deal in the Iraqi desert?
    Meanwhile, Dubya'Dib wanders the media wasteland as a
    televangelist and a horrible transformation takes place in
    the body of the governor of Florida. Of course, the
    Republican Party has no place for a clone--er, ghola. Too
    bad. Ollie North would have been perfect.

    Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel
    http://www.vibepusher.net/~jdugger
    The Secret Chiefs--It's not our fault!



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Mar 29 2003 - 07:29:59 MST