Re: extropian nudist colony

From: Anders Sandberg (asa@nada.kth.se)
Date: Wed Mar 19 2003 - 02:39:17 MST

  • Next message: Amara Graps: "Re: extropian nudist colony"

    On Tue, Mar 18, 2003 at 05:25:42PM -0600, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
    > EY>> Amara, while I'm in general agreement with your sentiments here, the last
    > >> sentence is a pure non sequitur. The pragmatic truth is that plenty of
    > >> people who can't stand their current bodies would be quite happy with a
    > >> Primo 3M. Yes, genuinely happy.
    >
    > AS> From my readings in the psychology of body dysmorphic disorder, I would
    > > say that quite a few people who are currently unhappy with their bodies
    > > would be just as unhappy if they got a Primo 3M. The problem isn't that
    > > there is anything wrong with the body, but the acceptance of it or the
    > > expectations of what a future body would mean to oneself.
    >
    > Sure, but there's a vast sea of difference between body dismorphic
    > disorder and a simple dislike of some specific feature. Eli's clearly
    > right: there are huge numbers of people who would be quite a bit
    > happier with simple changes, and the market for plastic surgery
    > proves it.

    Sure. I have a friend who has modified herself quite a bit and is quite
    happy about it (she is currently writing a >H book about her
    experiences). But the problem is that this discussion seems to assume
    that the vast majority of people are very rational about their bodies,
    and there is a tiny minority who isn't. The evidence rather points
    towards a wide distribution. Just the issue of how our bodies really
    look is extremely subjective, and people often have quite divergent
    ideas about their own appearance - somthing that should rationally be
    easy to determine. And their evaluation of that appearance is even more
    variable.

    Introducing technology that enable bodychange will make people reduce
    the distance between their current bodies and their current ideal
    bodies, but the subjective experience will be a change in subjectively
    perceived bodies (how they think they look) - which could go in any
    direction. As long as body change technology isn't super-trivial, this
    will cause pain and confusion.

    We have to analyse these issues well, since a simple way of dismissing
    transhumanist ideas is just to call them a result of BDD or being
    brainwashed by the cultural hegemony into a body-denying belief system.
    But there is a fundamental difference (even if there are certainly
    transhumanists who does fit in with the above criticism too).
    Transhumanism is not seeking to create perfect bodies, not even
    individually perfect bodies. The goal is rather to enable *improving*
    our bodies, with the realization that there will be something beyond
    Primo 3M too. It is not a process that should ever have to end, and it
    is not guaranteed to lead to eternal happiness. It is more about eternal
    growth and change.

    -- 
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Anders Sandberg                                      Towards Ascension!
    asa@nada.kth.se                            http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
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