From: matus (matus@snet.net)
Date: Mon Mar 17 2003 - 09:59:31 MST
>
> Apparently, Mr. Mania, you have no sense of irony. The respondent was
> using acts that Saddam has committed, and which you and your country
> seem blithely unwilling to bring him to task on. The fact that you are
> so willing to remove Mr. Bush for acts which Mr. Saddam has committed,
> and not willing to remove Mr. Saddam, exposes your hypocrisy and hidden
agenda....
"Yes, you are right, I failed to see the irony here. But anyway, your fine
President will be responsible for the deaths of American soldiers and for
invading a country. So, the reasons for accusation remain just the same,
no matter if I failed to detect ironic statements or not."
So you now recognize the irony, but do nothing to answer the question? Why
would you support a move, unilitarerally or multilaterally, to depose Bush
as a war criminal but CALL Bush a war criminal for trying to do exactly that
with Saddam, who IS in fact a war criminal. Do you not recognize your own
hypocricy?
"I also want Saddam to be removed but not on the cost of a mountain of
civilian Iraqui corpses, which will be a war crime."
So you want Saddam removed, but at the cost of not a single Iraqi Civilian?
I would ask then, how many corpses has Saddam himself racked up?
Conservatives estimates, as others on list have mentioned, are around
200,000. How many need he rack up before losing one Iraqi civilian (Perhaps
one he has tied to his front door) to remove him becomes just? Your policy
of absolutely no civilian casualities if implemented in *any* past war would
have lead to the immediate and catrastrophic rise to power of any and all
totalatrian regimes, we would today be the peoples planet of the soviet
union. If you considered Bush a war criminal, would killing one civilian be
just in ousting his tryannical regime, what if he has all-ready killed
100,000s of thousands, and there is no reason to suspect he will stop?
In short, you seem ready to jump on the 'remove the murderous bastard'
bandwagon only if it is Bush who is the 'murderous bastard'. Please outline
also a course of action that you would consider just in removing murderous
tyrants from power.
"I never would have thought that I would ever have to defend a pacifist
attitude here on the list when I started reading extropian mails in 1996."
I never thought it would be overun with moral relativist apologist hippies
who don't care for the lives of anyone but the individuals in thier own
countries. Take a look at the number of human kills racked up by murderous
tyrannical regimes. R.J. Rummels excellent site "Power Kills" estimates
that in the 20th century alone these governments have killed 170 million
people. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM I have heard of no
german forces fighting the murderous North Vietnames attemptes to slaughter
and enslave the entire population of Indochina.
"I am amazed how many rednecks are assembled here."
I am amazed at your lack of understanding of these geopolitical issues.
Your absolute pacifism is irrational and illogical, and would lead to a
system that actually rewards murderous expansionist regimes. Try plugging
'always cooperate' into any game strategy program and see how long it lasts.
Cooperate with a force invading your country? Coopoerate with a force
invading another country you are allied with? Cooperate with a murderous
government killing its own people? Where does this cooperation lead?
"but I do support their stance against the Iraq war which is a disarmament
founded on peaceful methods and more patience."
You seem oblivious or ignorant of the fact that the inspectors would not
even *be* in Iraq were it not for the credible threat of force from the US.
Note 'Credible' in that statement. This is why the inspectors were absent
for the past 12 years. What if Saddam, as a murderous tyrant, is not
interested in 'disarmament founded on a peaceful method'? What would you
propose be done then, just wait and hope he changes his mind, while he
contiues to kill thousands of people?
Why so ready to depose Bush for the same crimes that Saddam routinely
commits?
And for the record, I am proudly quite pale.
Michael Dickey
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