From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Sun Mar 09 2003 - 22:22:12 MST
spike66 wrote:
> Harvey Newstrom wrote:
>
>>
>> This stuff is important for Americans to realize.
>
> > Even if you believe it is all wrong, we must
>
>> recognize why so much of the world dislikes us. --
>> Harvey Newstrom, CISSP, IAM, GSEC
>
>
> I question the premise. The quiet majority in most
> countries might like America and western Europe.
> If one lives in a country where a few murderous
> religious fanatics have an anti-west rally, then
> it is wise to keep quiet.
>
Uh, wait. Western Europe is one of the places where a great
number of people are quite upset with us. Don't try to hide
behind Europe's skirt. And don't try to assume that only
murderous religious fanatics really hate us or that people who
say they do are afraid of harm from same. This is contemptible
rhetoric.
> Images of flag burning mobs sell newspapers. Peace
> rallies sell newspapers. Did you know there were
> a number of rallies in support of military action
> in Iran? I never saw a word about it in the mainstream
> press. By extrapolation, I must conclude that the
> notion that much of the world is anti-west is an
> intentionally myopic fabrication.
>
Sigh. Do you think you have explained or dealt with anything
that is real in the above? They are not "anti-west". They are
not even "anti-American". They are very much anti some current
US and Bristish governmental policies and actions. So am I.
> One can imagine a number of Iraqis and others in the
> middle east desperately hoping for a US-led rescue.
> Iraq must have its own budding young capitalists, its
> frustrated intellectuals, its flaming athiests, feminists,
> sexual revolutionaries, internet users, oppressed gays,
> technophiles, classic liberals, hippies, libertarians,
> progressives, its own extropians.
>
You can imagine whatever you wish. But if we do not deal with
the very real threats to peace and to our >human dreams the
current policies of the US represent all of us will suffer, and
not from terrorists either.
> All these would yearn for a more western society.
> Add them together and it *might* constitute a
> terrified majority in these oppressed countries.
> Let us not assume the world hates the west.
>
Frankly I certainly do not yearn to live in a society that
thinks it is ok to threaten the entire world with preemptive
strikes at its sole discretion. I do not yearn to live in a
society that locks away 1% or more of its people and most of
them for "crimes" which are nothing of the kind. I do not yearn
to live in a society that directly and indirectly takes away 75%
of what I earn to fund the destruction of my own freedom and
wellbeing and that of others around the world. I do not yearn
to live in a society that thinks it can and should outlaw any
and all forms of science and technology that it finds a little
scary. I don't yearn to live in a country that claims the right
to seize everything I own without trial, detain me indefinitely
without trial and without charges and without defense anytime it
decides it disapproves of me or anything and anyone I have ever
helped in any way that it defines as "terrorist". But I do live
in such a country. And I have decided to stay here and fight
the destruction of all that is truly good here for as long as I can.
If these things listed above are part of what you consider
"western society" then I doubt very much many yearn for it any
more than I do. Yes, there are many, many good and wonderful
things also about western society. But it is not those we are
hated for and it is high time that people got off their fatuous
"patriotic" high horse long enough to admit it and to do
something about it before it is much too late for us all.
- samantha
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