RE: language abuse and machine translation

From: nanowave (nanowave@shaw.ca)
Date: Sat Mar 08 2003 - 21:25:56 MST

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    strike 2

    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
    >[mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org]On Behalf Of Party of Citizens
    >Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 11:38 AM
    >To: extropians@extropy.org
    >Cc: life-gazette@yahoogroups.com
    >Subject: Re: language abuse and machine translation
    >
    >
    >On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, Alfio Puglisi wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, spike66 wrote:
    >>
    >> >In this forum I have decried the practice of
    >> >nonstandard language use for the reason that
    >> >soon now machines will be advanced enough to
    >> >do realtime translations using speech recognition
    >> >and a simple sort of table-lookup style
    >> >substitution. The overuse of obscure allusions
    >> >and verbing, among other language bad habits,
    >> >will delay practical machine translation, as
    >> >well as interfere with machines' ability to
    >> >understand humans.
    >> >
    >> >[...]
    >> >
    >> >We need newspeak. Before it's too late.
    >
    >How about robospeak instead of newspeak (aka moronspeak when expressed
    >according to Whitehouse dialect)? And yes, we need robospeak before it is
    >too late and the Queen's English drifts into irreversible moronspeak.
    >
    >Sample moronspeak:
    >
    >"All chickens are for us or against us. Some chickens cross the road.
    >There are good doer chickens and bad doer chickens. Therefore the chicken
    >crossed the road."
    >
    >Now this argument has three premisses and a conclusion. Logicians will
    >immediately recognize it as translatable into the symbolic language of
    >predicate calculus. But try translating that into French (and back to
    >English again) and you will understand why Powell is having problems at the
    >UN these days.
    >
    >> I'm not going to dumb down my language for the programmers' inability to
    >> understand it (I'm a programmer). Screw the stupid machines that we
    >> have now, and invent new, richer, different forms of speech.
    >
    >You could use the YES/NO/AND/OR connectors of combinatorial logic which
    >mean exactly the same in Adult Normative Standard English (ANSE), as the
    >only connectors for linking descriptors. A descriptor would be any symbol,
    >word, phrase, clause, sentence etc. which can be UNDERSTOOD by
    >ANSE-speakers even if it is not conventionally used in ANSE as long as it
    >can be assigned a T or F truth value. The criterion for the phrasing of
    >decriptors is purely semantic, ie it must communicate (to that ANSE target
    >population). Its lexicon consists of the descriptors as above. Its syntax
    >is the syntax of combinatorial logic, to which all other forms of
    >arithmetic, logic and mathematics can be reduced. Can it be developed to
    >the stage at which it meets the semantic criterion of accounting for
    >everything we MEAN to say when we use ANSE?
    >
    >POC
    >
    > Mix them,
    >> like it's already happening between English and local languages, and use
    >> them freely.
    >>
    >> Computers, for now, are merely a tool. A tool's job is to help his owner,
    >> not to restrict his freedom. A program must meet some requirements before
    >> granted the "human-level intelligence" medal. Excellent speech
    >recognition
    >> and understanding are a given. And I would expect it to be much better
    >> than us at moving between languages and inventing new ones.
    >>
    >> Ciao,
    >> Alfio
    >>
    >>
    >



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