Re: Performance enhancement with selegiline

From: gts (gts_2000@yahoo.com)
Date: Sat Feb 08 2003 - 03:58:23 MST

  • Next message: gts: "Re: Performance enhancement with selegiline"

    ABSTRACT
    Neuroprotection by deprenyl and related compounds

    Maruyama W, Naoi M

    Department of Basic Gerontology,
    National Institute for Longevity Sciences Obu, Japan.
    maruyama@nils.go.jp
    Mech Ageing Dev 1999 Nov; 111(2-3):189-200

    There is an increasing number of data by in vitro and in vivo experiments,
    indicating that (-)-deprenyl is neuroprotective to dopamine neurons, even
    though detailed mechanism remains to be clarified. In this paper
    neuroprotection by (-)-deprenyl and structurally related compounds was
    examined in concern with the suppression of apoptosis induced by a reactive
    oxygen species, peroxynitrite generated from SIN-1. The apoptotic DNA
    damage was quantitatively determined using dopaminergic SH-SYSY cells and by
    a single cell gel electrophoresis (comet) assay. DNA damage induced by
    peroxynitrite was proved to be apoptotic by prevention of the damage by
    cycloheximide or actinomycin-D. (-)-Deprenyl and other propargylamines
    protected the cells from apoptosis in a dose-dependent way. (-)-Deprenyl
    protected the cells even after it was washed out, suggesting that it may
    initiate the intracellular process to repress the apoptotic death program.
    The study on the structure-activity relationship of (-)-deprenyl analogues
    revealed that a N-propargyl residue with adequate size of hydrophobic
    structure is essentially required for the anti-apoptotic activity. These
    results suggest that (-)-deprenyl and related compounds may protect neurons
    from apoptosis and be applicable to delay the deterioration of neurons
    during advancing ageing and in neurodegenerative disorders.
    =======

    I'm reposting this abstract above, Rafal, because you failed to address it,
    much less refute it, in your reply to the last message to you.

    Rafal wrote:

    >> Other studies show that selegiline increases lifespan in <snip> human PD
    >> patients.

    > ### Quote them and show they are more reliable and trustworthy than
    DATATOP.

    I think I have already posted several that make that claim, and I don't know
     why I should even bother to report more of them. I have quoted at least
    half a dozen abstracts here, Rafal, and you have failed to address the data
    and claims in those abstracts in any detail whatsoever! Instead you just
    keep restating the same old argument (that selegiline is only helps with
    symptoms rather than with neuroprotection, as if I didn't hear it the first
    time), and you base that argument on the *single* study that *you*
    personally prefer to recognize as the *only* valid study, as if I and
    everyone here should consider you to be the world's leading authority on the
    subject.

    You've given us no reason to believe that you have assessed the evidence
    better than other experts who specialize in this field and who still
    currently believe that the preponderance of the evidence supports the view
    that selegiline is neuroprotective in PD. Maybe they are right or maybe they
    are wrong, but you Rafal certainly don't have a monopoly on such knowledge.
    I will however for the moment concede that the evidence for neuroprotection
    in PD is not unequivocal, and in fact I sincerely do agree that isn't, just
    so that we can get past this point. Okay? Nevermind PD for now.

    Here above is again is the abstract I posted in my last message, which you
    ignored like most others I have posted. Please respond to it in
    detail.Specifically, please explain why this research does not support my
    contention that selegiline is neuroprotective *in general* -- setting aside
    for the moment any specific contradictions that might be present in the PD
    literature. (Perhaps PD is not a good model for general life-extension
    purposes. After all neither you nor I have clinical PD (I hope) -- and as
    stated in the header this discussion is really about performance enhancement
    with selegiline for normal transhumanist folks like you and me.)

    I'd like to think you are not so closed-minded, Rafal. You have often
    criticized me for such, yet on this matter you are speaking from the same
    conservative perspective as do those who criticize the entire subject of
    anti-aging medicine -- your hard-line skepticism about this subject is
    hardly in the spirit of transhumanism or extropianism.

    Note that the abstract is dated 1999, far more recent than the study that
    you've stated is "the last word."

    Tell us why we should not accept this research as valid.

    -gts



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