From: Michael M. Butler (mmb@spies.com)
Date: Thu Jan 23 2003 - 00:58:49 MST
Lee Corbin
> Lee Daniel Crocker
>
>>What I am saying is plain English--the very concept of "country"
>>is an outdated an irrelevant one, and if you continue to think in
>>those terms I remain unmoved.
>
> I'm a little amazed to hear that you believe the
> concept to be outmoded. Countries, I admit, are
> a (low order) reification of certain societies,
> but even that term you might suspect.
>
> Countries appear to take actions, act like they
> have feelings, or have thought certain things
> collectively. I'll agree that there is little
> "fact of the matter" here, but I'm still surprised
> at your take.
I frequently sympathize with Mr. Crocker's views, but I'll don
my Brinnish-Pirsigian-Lakoffan spectacles for the moment:
"Country", "society" and "civilization" are all nominalizations
that permit chunking and metaphorical thinking, which we apes
seem to need to do. Sometimes they're low principled, sometimes high.
Much harm has been dealt, and much wrongdong denied, in their names.
At their best, they are symbols for abstract (and often static)
patterns of quality. The very notion of "civilization" as including
"progress" in an extropic sense seems to be a novel one, historically
speaking.
Other popular ideals far outnumber that one--give us a New Jerusalem!
Give us Ancient Greece! Give us Sharia! Give us blood sacrifices, atop
ziggurats, of all Gringos! Etc., etc.
Also do bear in mind that we live in a world where a large number of
people identify with SPORTS TEAMS, for heaven's sake (GO RAIDERS!
HOOAH! ad nauseam).
Society is like a river. Some swim in the Ganges, some decline to.
But you gotta have a drink of _something_ once in a while.
MMB
In a world of cannibals, the vegetarian is toast.
In a world of statists, every TAZ is a target. Don't kid yourself.
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