From: avatar (avatar@renegadeclothing.com.au)
Date: Wed Jan 15 2003 - 03:30:34 MST
The question of copyright for authors should be left up to the authors concerned.
Low cost titles ($1 or $2) through direct download to blank (digital paper) books from personal or small organization websites offer the same moneys for authors presently published but otherwise disenfranchised. It is conceivable after the introduction of digital paper/ink books by eink etc. that individual authors such as Damien Broderick might get buyers in the order of 100s or 1,000s and be in a position to more fully support themselves as such downloads will be ongoing. I myself believe in freeware in a mixed environment where you can choose alongside buywhere. In a mixed environment where cheap cds and books benefit the author and publicity ring and editors (if any) directly rather than the middlemen I am becoming less and less convinced of the benefits of stealware. In a world of linux I can't justified pirating Bill. The closer we get to nanotech assemblers the more I support freeware, but even in a world without money as we understand it there will be people who want to restrict personal or cultural information to selected inquirers for whatever reason. That's their right, if you ask me. (Leaving aside the question of child pornography or terrorism or military secrets, this is straying into a different topic.)
Towards Ascension
Avatar Polymorph
34 After Armstrong
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathanael Allison" <jubungalord@hotmail.com>
To: <extropians@extropy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 3:59 PM
Subject: free information
>
> Actually I find the hording of information by the super powers and thier
> middle and upperclasses a hundred times more selfish than one person
> stealing copies of books. It ensures thier dominance over other countries
> and other people. Isn't that the definition of a selfish act, to put
> yourself before others. Of course it's not practical to get everyone on the
> same page but it couldn't hurt to make the information accessable in some
> form or another.
>
> What possible disadvantages could there be by allowing non-fiction books to
> be free on the internet. What, you have to have a commitee to determine what
> is non-fiction. If people want to make money they shouldn't be trying to
> reflect objective Truth in a scientific way like you say we are trying to
> do. Trying to make money will create a more non-scientific text because
> people will write to sell, not write the truth.
>
> At a certain piont extropians have to worship a religion called causation.
> They have to believe thier is nothing random and undeterminable. They must
> believe that what they think pertains in some way to reality. If they do not
> than what's the piont of any of this? Why not worship any religion?
>
> Some person writes
>
> Ah, another chance to combat misperceptions, disinformation, and
> ignorance...
>
> --- Nathanael Allison <jubungalord@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Nathanael(jubungalord@hotmail.com)
> >I know this idea is going to be attacked since many of the people on
> >this list are authors. I'm not purposefully trying to make enemies.
> >I know it seems that way.
> >
> >Why aren't these books available on programs like napster. There are
> >a ton af them, kazaa, imesh, bearshare ect.... I'm searched and found
> >nothing. We could make all the books under a special search like
> >"extrotrans3456".
> >
> >I mean i haven't bought a CD in like 5 years. Why shouldn't we be
> >able to download books as well. I know it's illegal, but no one is
> >doing anything about the free music.
>
> Just because you don't get a ticket every time you speed doesn't mean
> you aren't breaking the law. While there are many laws on the books
> (including speed limits) which in my opinion do nothing but promote
> disrespect for the Law in general, to give in to that seed of
> disrespect is the road not to Anarchy, but chaos, which is an entirely
> undesirable thing for anybody.
>
> There is a place for civil disobedience, for sure. But don't mask pure
> greedy looting as anything more noble than what it really is, and not
> wanting to pay for someone else's hard work is far more greedy and
> selfish than the creator wanting to get paid for their work.
>
> >
> >Really though shouldn't these books be available to anyone for free.
> >For transhumanistic ideas to gain a greater base shouldn't it be free
> >like the bible.
>
> The Bible was a world wide best seller long before free copies of it
> were available. In fact, for more than a thousand years of history,
> copies of the bible were so expensive that they cost several years
> salary to obtain one. Churches were so ubiquitous in communities
> because of the huge community investment needed to house that one book,
> and to have someone who was literate to read it to the rest of the
> community, to protect that one book from damage by hands soiled in the
> fields, or callused from the plow or the smithy.
>
> For a good chunk of human history, the Bible has been the equivalent of
> the computer: a rather expensive device, even in it's most inexpensive
> versions, and never found for free, though one might be borrowed for a
> time, as at a library.
>
> >
> >What it comes down to is where is the money going that is generated
> >by these books. If most of it is just going into someone's pocket tham I'm
> >sorry that seems very unextropian to me.
>
> Then you don't know the first thing about extropy.
>
> >I know people have to make a living but beyond that there main concern
> >should be to make as big an impact as they
> >can.
>
> Extropy is not a religion. It doesn't need to evangelize, it simply is,
> and becomes, as a result of it reflecting Objective Truth in a more
> accurate, scientific way, not superstitious guesswork and flim
> flammery.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> --- Nathanael Allison <jubungalord@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Nathanael(jubungalord@hotmail.com)
> >I know this idea is going to be attacked since many of the people on
> >this list are authors. I'm not purposefully trying to make enemies.
> >I know it seems that way.
> >
> >Why aren't these books available on programs like napster. There are
> >a ton af them, kazaa, imesh, bearshare ect.... I'm searched and found
> >nothing. We could make all the books under a special search like
> >"extrotrans3456".
> >
> >I mean i haven't bought a CD in like 5 years. Why shouldn't we be
> >able to download books as well. I know it's illegal, but no one is
> >doing anything about the free music.
>
> Just because you don't get a ticket every time you speed doesn't mean
> you aren't breaking the law. While there are many laws on the books
> (including speed limits) which in my opinion do nothing but promote
> disrespect for the Law in general, to give in to that seed of
> disrespect is the road not to Anarchy, but chaos, which is an entirely
> undesirable thing for anybody.
>
> There is a place for civil disobedience, for sure. But don't mask pure
> greedy looting as anything more noble than what it really is, and not
> wanting to pay for someone else's hard work is far more greedy and
> selfish than the creator wanting to get paid for their work.
>
> >
> >Really though shouldn't these books be available to anyone for free.
> >For transhumanistic ideas to gain a greater base shouldn't it be free
> >like the bible.
>
> The Bible was a world wide best seller long before free copies of it
> were available. In fact, for more than a thousand years of history,
> copies of the bible were so expensive that they cost several years
> salary to obtain one. Churches were so ubiquitous in communities
> because of the huge community investment needed to house that one book,
> and to have someone who was literate to read it to the rest of the
> community, to protect that one book from damage by hands soiled in the
> fields, or callused from the plow or the smithy.
>
> For a good chunk of human history, the Bible has been the equivalent of
> the computer: a rather expensive device, even in it's most inexpensive
> versions, and never found for free, though one might be borrowed for a
> time, as at a library.
>
> >
> >What it comes down to is where is the money going that is generated
> >by these books. If most of it is just going into someone's pocket tham I'm
> >sorry that seems very unextropian to me.
>
> Then you don't know the first thing about extropy.
>
> >I know people have to make a living but beyond that there main concern
> >should be to make as big an impact as they
> >can.
>
> Extropy is not a religion. It doesn't need to evangelize, it simply is,
> and becomes, as a result of it reflecting Objective Truth in a more
> accurate, scientific way, not superstitious guesswork and flim
> flammery.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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