Re: COKE BET

From: avatar (avatar@renegadeclothing.com.au)
Date: Fri Jan 10 2003 - 19:49:37 MST


I guess if Quaoar is not a planet this is not a problem.

It's the same question as is Australia a continent or an island.

Generically speaking there are currently and probably always extremely few
bodies with a "rough" orbit around the Sun that are large (thus we exclude
moons like Jupiter's). To the general public Pluto is a planet and Charon is
its moon. There ain't too many bodies the size of Pluto nearby us.

Whatever the official rules are as set recently the general consensus for
several hundred years has been that planets have the names of Roman deities.
If Gaia is confusing because of the associations with Earth's biosphere and
various related theories, Juno would be perfect, even fitting in with the
modern requirements as the goddess of childbirth.

I do like your logic though. As a matter of humour, perhaps Pluto should
change it's name when within Neptune's orbit and when beyond it.

All I can say is that the newspaper headlines across the world did not read
"Quaoar - new Kuiper Belt object discovered" but "Quaoar - new planet
discovered". At least the six or seven articles I read said that.

Culturally, the real test of whether it's defined as a "planet" will be what
school kids gets taught in their e-ink textbooks in five years time. That
means it rests with the writers of school books, who are often generalists
[at least until about 20 years from now when things start to get strange].

I should check what the Chinese call their planets. The question of naming
(original, translated, and applied) is wickedly interesting. I've always
wanted a dictionary with original name, original phonetic spelling, original
precise translation, intermediary translations/forms and current status. For
example, Genghis Khan means "Oceanic Lord", Pharoah "Great House", Jupiter
(one translation) "Shining Father", Augustus "Sublime", Ahura Mazda "Wise
Lord", Thebes = Waset (official) or Niwt "The City". It may be that English
is an "accretion language" because of its use of its large use of adoptive
words (I'm not sure though, although I get the feeling that for example the
Celts language was internally more like an Amerindian, with names equivalent
to "Rolling Thunder" or "Big Horse" - it's certainly true of their tribal
names).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harvey Newstrom" <mail@HarveyNewstrom.com>
To: <extropians@extropy.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 3:40 AM
Subject: RE: COKE BET

> avatar wrote,
> > Thanks very much for the info Harvey.
> >
> > However, if "Objects sufficiently outside Neptune's orbit that orbital
> > stability is
> > reasonably assured for a substantial fraction of the lifetime of the
solar
> > system are given mythological names associated with creation" where did
> > Pluto and
> > Charon come from? Probably this rule did not apply when Charon was
named?
>
> I don't understand the problem. Pluto and its moon Charon are not outside
> the orbit of Neptune. They cross the orbit of Neptune. Therefore they
> don't get mythological names associated with creation. They fall under
the
> rule for "Objects crossing or approaching the orbit of Neptune and in
> stabilizing
> resonances other than 1:1" which "are given mythological names associated
> with the
> underworld." This seems to fit Pluto and Charon.
>
> > If consistency had been respected, for example, Ge (Greek form, Roman
> > Gaia) - mother of Uranus -
> > should have been chosen, rather than Quaoar.
>
> Quaoar is outside the orbit of Neptune, so it gets one of the
"mythological
> names associated with creation". Quaoar is not considered a planet
because
> it is in the Kuiper belt with a lot of other similar object. Greek
deities
> are used for the major planets and the above rules are used for
> Trans-Neptunian Objects. The rules were carefully chosen so that "Pluto"
> and "Charon" fit the rules for planets and TNOs. They are both Greek
> deities and mythological names associated with the Underworld.
>
> I don't see what is inconsistent here.
>
> --
> Harvey Newstrom, CISSP <http://HarveyNewstrom.com>
>
>



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