From: Brett Paatsch (paatschb@ocean.com.au)
Date: Wed Jan 08 2003 - 22:26:13 MST
Lee Corbin wrote:
> Samantha writes
>
> > The above assumes that reason alone is sufficient for all
> > things. But some quite fundamental philosophical decisions,
> > such as the Primacy of Matter vs. Primacy of Consciousness, are
> > not decidable on the basis of reason alone. They are at a
> > nearly axiomatic level not further reducible.
>
> Yes.
[General comment: I've already replied to some of these point in my
reply to Samantha so I'll just pick out the new stuff. ]
"The above" isn't visible here its in the other post. Where I denied
assuming reason is sufficient for all things.
> > There is also the matter of a more inductive approach to
> > certain questions of life and value. For that matter,
> > the entire sphere of values is not easily reduced to that
> > which reason alone recommends.
>
> Hear, hear! IMO, reason is completely incapable of
> establishing values---reason can do no more than
> explore the consistency of values.
Reason can certainly do the consistency testing, as you so often
demonstate so well.
I wonder though if reason can't establish some values too.
I'll have to chew that over.
Hmm. Seems to me that our only existant knowledge of reasoning
beasts to date is ourselves and we have clearly emerged in a social
context and language it would seem probably came along after
reasoning.
But then, chimps can do reasoning of a form, they can use tools to
reach for fruit, even tools to reach for tools to reach for fruit. And
they don't have language as we normally mean it. So it looks like
reason predates language. Now all I need to show is that language
gives rise to some value that was not around prior to language. But
hang on. I *value* language itself quite highly, it would certainly make
my life harder and my standard of living and social interactions less
rich were I not to have it. If language requires reason that it seems
reason does create values. A whole swag of values perhaps.
Did a small light just come on somewhere or is this jumped up
chimp (me) just scratching his head too hard?R.
> Even in values, it is unwise
> to say "Blah, blah blah, and blah. This is what I BELIEVE!",
> e.g., "It is horrible and obscene and cruel and therefore
> WRONG for a woman to cut the arms off her daughter, and THIS
> IS WHAT I BELIEVE", completely shutting oneself down to further
> critical inquiry and pursuit of consistency.
Hooray! Welcome back Lee, I missed you ;-)
Regards,
Brett
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