From: natashavita@earthlink.net
Date: Tue Jan 07 2003 - 09:57:12 MST
From: Brett Paatsch
Natasha wrote:
>> I think you may have taken this post too seriously, Brett.
>Maybe. I do that sometimes : ).
__________
A typical human occurrence :-)
>Sometimes it is our critics that can give us valuable information
about where our messages are failing to get through or are being
misunderstood.<
_________
Was this ever doubted? I mean you are talking to an artist and what we do
is critique, critique, and critique. It's our nature. Perhaps criticism
is something you are currently dealing with in your work/life, but for me
it’s already integrated.
>My current approach to things is probably a bit hyper-political
because of what I've been doing over much of the last year as
a lobbyist working with pro-biotech and stem cell industry groups
and patient advocacy groups to try and get the best possible
legislative environment in Australia for stem cell research.<
___________
I think this is good. I'm glad that someone is right in the thick of
things and can offer valuable information about policies on the floor.
>Sorry I'm not familiar with Pro-Act.<
______________
It’s a network I created before my cancer surgery, when it was put on hold
(but definitely not forgotten). You can go to
http://www.progressaction.org/ and see the talk I delivered at Extro 5 and
the PowerPoint presentation. The mission statement on the home page.
>But just this
morning Australian time, I looked at a number of other threads
posted by list members and thought this stuff is great. The quality
of the content is very high. This is NOT a group in danger of being
swamped by negativity in my view.<
______________
I agree with you.
>In my experience many people and groups find it exceptionally
difficult to really hear criticism and therefor to benefit from it.<
____________________
I'm not sure about this, but I do now that in the art world, criticism is
expected and utilized. Art critics are in high demand and studio artists
(painters and electronic artists) rely on criticism for our work. It is how
we are taught to cogitate and conjecture.
On a more objective stance, I think extropians are similarly interested in
criticism for their/our growth and also, importantly, for our reliability.
We need those who are knowledgeable to catch any mistakes we make and
offer/suggest new or better ways of approaching a subject.
But, I do agree that there are many people, including extropians, who react
defensively and I'm sure we all bear that burden at some point or another.
>It really is hard work to start organizations and promote lists and
to actually be a positive political force for positive change. The folk
that do it, do it because they love it, they find reward in it. And that
is good (I'm talking generally here not about ExI). But often, and I
have had quite a bit of experience with this, the folk that do most
of the work of maintaining a vehicle or a brand or a forum become
protective of what they have built (again still quite normal, natural
and healthy). But then sometimes the protectiveness goes to far
they censor too much. They fear too much that their much loved
vehicle and all their work will be wasted if others, especially the
"wrong sort" of others, start to use it as a personal platform, and
the others are not courteous or respectful, or they may even be
opportunistic, stupid, blatantly self-serving and exploitative. In my
experience (and drawing also on my interest in psychology and
politics) good organisations, frequently do lose the plot at some
stage, they lose some of their vitality, perhaps morphing into too
much a platform for just one or two peoples views. They start to
go into a downward spiral, that is very hard to check as the very
process of checking can itself foster problems. I think some
others recognize this general organisational phenomenon too.<
_____________
Insightful observations. I think Max is not overly protective - a darn
good thing. But, even here he is fully aware of people who position ExI
inappropriately or misuse transhumanism for personal gain.
>Now I *am* switching over to talking about ExI, the list and my
perception of your role in it.<
____________
I may have projected too much protectiveness onto you as
one who I perceived to be strongly invested in the establishment
and supporting of ExI and this excellent list. I may have mistakenly
thought that you were more anxious and concerned about the
vitality of ExI and this list than you are. If so I am both sorry
and pleased. Sorry if I misprojected and pleased if my concern
was misplaced.<
_______________
Yes, you are correct. I'm a woman and it's one of my innate tendencies.:-)
My only concern with this list has been over the many years to diffuse the
boy's club mentality and to also wrongful claims made by some people that
ExI is a political organization, which it is NOT and claims no particular
affiliation with ANY one political mindset, platform or organization.
>The purpose of that above comment was for me to let it be known
that I respect the sensitivities of those who have invested much in
setting up and maintaining a group like this. Maybe I'm respecting
sensitivities that are not so much real as imagined :-). But in any case,
if any of the group of people who I perceive are most likely to be
watchful of the health of the list, of its content and its fluctuations -
the committee I presumed, were concerned that my posts were
becoming too negative or being perceived as too negative then I
was giving notice that I would be receptive and respond positively
to any advice about such concerns *if* they arose, though I hoped
they wouldn't.<
______________
Your contentiousness is appreciated.
>Thank you : ) Accepted and reciprocated.<
__________
You are welcome,
Natasha
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