From: Jeff Davis (jrd1415@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Jan 07 2003 - 02:57:14 MST
Extropes,
--- Dehede011@aol.com wrote:
"...if you look in the newspaper files of any large
public library and examine the newspapers of the mid
and late fifties you will find ample proof that
multitudes of people fled the totalitarian north due
to the suppression of Ho Chi Minh and his helpers."
Then Damien, in a later post:
"Without taking a position, however, on the substance
of Ron's comment, it would be interesting to know how
many of those fleeing from atheistic communists were
Catholics."
To which Ron replied:
"Damien, it would be interesting to notice if you paid
attention to constant stream of reports of murder
instead of seizing immediately upon the ad hominem
argument that we were sypathetic to Roman Catholics.
Those people voted with their feet in hordes. Do you
suppose they were looking for a Roman Catholic Mass
and if so why was it being denied them in the North?"
-------------------
Interesting exchange. Seems to involve to some degree
the issue of refugees from North Vietnam after the
peace accords of 1954. Perhaps a fact or two to flesh
out the mental picture of the real events.
But before I give you the link, may I suggest a moment
taken to review your current inventory of fact on this
matter. What do you really know? What is your total
exposure to facts regarding refugee
movements/relocations in Vietnam in '54-'55? If it is
little more than a vague recollection that, "in fear
for their lives, they fled the horror of communism",
without a single real fact as far as the eye can see,
can your fairly characterize as rational any
impression that you might have on the matter? Be
fair, now.
Here's the link:
http://chss2.montclair.edu/furrg/_vwac99/00000077.htm
...to a condensed version/excerpts from:
B.S.N. Murti, Vietnam Divided: The Unfinished
Struggle. London: Asia Publishing House, 1964.
Do a "search in page" for "Refugees from the North".
What follows is a highly-detailed description of the
events referred to above.
Regarding B.S.N. Murti and Vietnam Divided: at the
link
http://www.booksonvietnam.com/detailpage.asp?id=83
You will read
Author Profile: The author was Assistant Secretary to
India's Congress Party in the Central Legislature
(1944-48).
After the partition of Vietnam, B.S.N. Murti was a
member of the Indian delegation charged with the
implementation of Geneva Accords.
Book Review: "An excellent insight to the problems
posed by the partition and the relocation of Catholics
from the North to the South, and the Viet Minh from
the South to the North. Murti was obviously pleased
with how the transfer went and gives a good
description of what the atmosphere was like at this
tense time. It appears that the Indian peace-keepers
sided with those from Poland in looking favourably on
the North, while the Canadians were more sympathetic
to the South".
The peacekeepers referred to above were the Canadian,
Indian, and Polish, riff-raff charged with the
implementation of the Geneva Accords.
-------------------------
Now, for those who have toiled along this far, a small
reward. Convinced that this poster takes this matter
waaaay too seriously? For some ***really***
interesting reading, check this out...
Now honestly, when you see the picture of Avro, how
seriously are you inclined towards what follows?
http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html
The Shocking Story of the Catholic "Church's" Role in
Starting the Vietnam War
By Avro Manhattan
About the author:
Avro Manhattan was the world's foremost authority on
Roman Catholicism in politics. A resident of London,
during WW II he operated a radio station called "Radio
Freedom" broadcasting to occupied Europe. He was the
author of over 20 books including the best-seller The
Vatican in World Politics, twice Book-of-the-Month and
going through 57 editions. He was a Great Briton who
risked his life daily to expose some of the darkest
secrets of the Papacy. His books were #1 on the
Forbidden Index for the past 50 years!!
Look particularly at chapter eight, The Virgin Mary
Goes South, at:
http://www.reformation.org/chapter8.html
----------------------
For a combination super-chuckle and Kafka-esque
"hmmmmmmmmm", if you search the Murti piece for the
phrase "atomic attack". You will find this paragraph:
"There was general panic in the North as the situation
was so confused and the people's minds were dominated
by fear. Added to this, the herd instinct in them
played a prominent part. Most of the people left
because their neighbors in the village left and their
leaders and priests left and asked them to leave. A
large number of people decided to leave because of a
vague fear of atomic attack on the North. The
International Commission's Teams came across a great
number of people who really believed that if they
remained in the North, the Americans would drop atom
bombs."
I direct your attention to the word "really", above.
Then, if you search "chapter eight, The Virgin Mary
Goes South", you will find this:
"[Caption to photo]Catholics fleeing North Vietnam,
following the intense religious and political
propaganda from the South. They were told that if they
stayed under a Communist atheistic government they
would be atom bombed out of existence and they would
lose their souls. Catholic President Diem wished to
create economic and political disruption to the North
with an accelerated population dislocation. Catholic
priests and the South Vietnamese radio declared that
the Virgin Mary and even her Son, Jesus Christ, had
gone to South Vietnam to live under Catholic Diem.
Ultimately three-quarters of a million North
Vietnamese Catholics fled their homes and villages
within a few months. The authorities in the North
tried to stop the human flood but were helpless
against the religious emotionalism used by the
Catholics of South Vietnam."
----------------------
I love the internet. You flat out can't get this kind
of entertainment from TV.
-----------------------
The history of Catholicism in Indochina is complex. A
superficial familiarity with the events of the Vienam
War era at first led me to suspect that the Catholics
were a comprador class created by the French during
their time there. That's not far off, but there's a
bit more to it than that, dating back to 1535, and the
arrival in the far east of the first Portuguese
missionaries.
Best, Jeff Davis
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who
said it--no matter if I have said it--unless it agrees
with your own reason and your common sense."
Buddha
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