Re: Private Property and Capitalism

Twirlip of Greymist (
Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:56:27 -0700 (PDT)

On Oct 10, 11:15pm, Suresh Naidu wrote:
} On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, David Musick wrote:

} number of carpets people can put out in a day. Most of our crap jobs are
} given to people in other lands, imposed on them by businesses that buy the
} land out from underneath people by striking deals with whatever authority
} is already in place. Then they put the people in a state of serfdom.

How does one impose a job on someone without using force? If they don't
want the job they wouldn't take it... oh, I see, the one job is their
only means to gain living necessities? Because there are no native
jobs? Then the business is doing them a favor of sorts -- if you just
get rid of the business, they starve. Because they have no land? Why
not? Oh, because the local authority sold the land from underneath the

Why do I have this sudden urge to blame the authoritarian government of
the poor people, which has the power to displace them to build a dam or
drill for oil or to mine, rather than the business which is yes,
offering the minimum is has to, but businesses do that to each other.
It's the local state's fault that the people have no economic choice.

} Okay, call me one of those crazy idealists, but what about if people
} worked to better each other rather than only themsleves. Science

Excellent idea, I'd love it if you all work to better me. I'll
contribute, I'll be in management!

} hoping we as a species get out of this greed rut and into something
} sustainable.

Ecosystem hasn't been that cooperative, and it's gone for 3-4 gigayears.
Problem is, even if you posit starting with an altruistic species, if
one individual mutates to be selfish, it has a lovely reproductive
advantage. Unless there are control or exclusion mechanisms among the

} element of compassion and interdependence. The farmer supports the builder
} of houses with
} food, while the builder of houses builds for the farmer, who possibly has
} enough to support a computer engineer, who would help hook the houses up
} to the net. It is mutual cooperation, instead of feeding parasites.

That happens today. The farmer sells food to the builder and the
engineer, and uses the money to buy a house and a network connection and
whatever else he can afford.

} My fundamental moral principle is that all forms of coercion are bad,
} government and private property are pretty much the two biggest forms of
} coercion I can think of. You know about government coercion, but who backs

I kind of agree that "property is theft", at least I can share that
viewpoint. But I haven't seen any alternatives. I've read some
Kropotkin recently and was impressed by his criticisms. But I could not
find exactly how he wanted society to actually work. And then I read
some Hayek...

} Various activist magazines. When one learns of the injustices perpetuated
} within capitalism, one learns to hate it with a passion.

Are you as familiar with the injustices under other systems?

Merry part,
-xx- Damien R. Sullivan X-) <*>

She became a star, a star all in the night,
And he became a thundercloud and bundled her out of sight.