Re: Y is it so? And will sex for fun survive?

Octavio Rojas Diaz (
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 03:44:05 -0600

> I am not a doctor, nor an expert on the subject, but I do have a couple
> friends that have used MDMA extensively. There is one apparent
> side-effect that is common to them that may or may not be from heavy MDMA
> usage, although it is not readily obvious unless you interact with them
> regularly.
> They have extremely poor short-term memory, much worse than I have ever
> seen in a normal person. We have speculated in the past that it was
> from heavy usage of MDMA and its analogs. They did not always have this
> problem, which is why we attributed it to drug use (MDMA specifically
> because we had heard that it could cause these types of problems).
> But as I said, I am no expert on the subject; I am just reporting what
> I and others have noticed. By "poor" short-term memory, I mean that I
> could spend an hour helping them go over some subject matter, and the next
> day they would not remember that they had even talked to me about it.
> Long-term memory seems fine, though.

Hmmmmmmmm this is indeed pretty interesting, it is especulated that MDMA damages the dendrites (I think) of neurons that regulate mood and behavior among other things this damage has actually seen on rats and other animals, but never in humans, in some animals the damage was permanent, in others the neurons had a regrowth of their dendrites of almost 100% after a year, although the growth was chaotic

(I'll try to get sources and medical data because I'm no expert either) but the areas that affect short term memory don't seem to be touched by MDMA molecules, although maybe it's metabolites might affect them

I'd wish more research were done on this, it would be interesting to know if this is a temporal or permanent effect, and if it only happens with chronic use or with ocassional use as well.

It'd be interesting to know if this is an effect caused by MDMA or it's analogues like MDA, MDE etc that are commonly found on E pills or even sold as E because they have similar effects, I have heard that MDA is twice as neurotoxic as MDMA so probably other compounds are more neurotoxic or no neurotoxic at all.

Another theory is that this effect might be caused by the adulterants found on E pills like amphetamines or cocaine, or on other compounds sold as E like DXM (a powerful dissociative in higher doses, and a cough supressant in lower doses suspected of causing Olney's lessions that might impair this skills:

     Memory, especially language-related (e.g., finding words)
     Understanding metaphors
     Evaluating, and possibly controlling, your own behaviour
     Multi-sensory thinking
     Learning in new situations
     Certain aspects of visual perception

With increasing doses, damage spreads beyond the posterior cingulate and retrosplenial cortex into other areas of the brain including the hippocampus and olfactory
areas. Damage to the olfactory tubercule would, obviously, impair one's sense of smell. Damage to the limbic system itself could have wide-ranging consequences

     Autobiographical memory
     Declarative memory (as opposed to remembering skills)
     Place-memory (learning and remembering your way around)
     Coupling of emotions to experience

so if you've been paying attention these effects are similar to the loss of short term memory your friends reported, it's also believed that Olney's lessions are worse in females than in males, the reasons of this are unknown.

There's still a lot of unknowns here. Nobody has ever seen Olney's lesions in a human brain. It could be that this damage only occurs very rarely, to people with
underlying neurological disorders, and that most people who experience impairment are simply suffering from neurotransmitter depletion, receptor reregulation, or
some sort of learned phenomenon (similar perhaps to the flashbacks a small percentage of LSD users get). That's the best case scenario.

The worst case? Everyone using dissociatives may be doing permanent damage to their temporal and perhaps frontal lobes. This damage would be cumulative, adding up over each experience, with heavy or extended doses doing especially heavy damage. Unfortunately, you may not know there's anything wrong at first.

Neural networks are a lot like holograms, in that you can remove or damage part of them and the built-in redundancy will keep things working more or less properly
(perhaps with a bit less flexibility). Once you get to a certain threshold, however, it gets rapidly worse. Think about it like a curve ball; from the batter's perspective,
the ball goes in a straight line and then suddenly darts away, even though
it's really making a steady arc.

well enough of ramble here :) It'd be interesting to know if your friends report any of these symptoms as well to know if they are female or male, and the "brand" of E they are taking

I'm pretty interesting in knowing these things so I can know more about long term effects from drug use so if you can give me any info please contact me.

As a final suggestion there are E testing kits that reveal if your pill has MDMA analogues, adulterants like amphetamines or cocaine, or dextromethorphan so I suggest that your friends use these in order to know what they are taking, and can be safer.